‘No Evidence’ Backs FLG Sujiatan Accusations
When shocking reports first emerged that China was mass-harvesting the organs of thousands Falun Gong members, the U.S. government called on China to allow international inspection of the facility in question. China wisely decided to do just that — though not quite immediately — and embassy staffers who visited the location have found the evidence for the reports lacking.
Officers and staff from our embassy in Beijing and consulate in Shenyang have visited the area and the specific site mentioned in these reports on two separate occasions,” McCormack said.
“In these visits the officers were allowed to tour the entire facility and grounds and found no evidence that the site is being used for any function other than as a normal public hospital.”
The timing, coinciding with Hu Jintao’s visit certainly played a role. First, Falun Gong had a motive to make the charge at this time. Second, China urgently needed to clear the air before Bush and Hu met. Third — and this is the part that gives some pause — the embassy had a very powerful motive to find the evidence lacking. That said, the evidence at this point doesn’t support the specific charges at Sujiatan. It’s a hit for the credibility of the Epoch Times, which was trying to fill a badly needed role as an independent newspaper that feels free to challenge the Chinese government.
And of course, plenty of credible evidence supports accusations of Chinese persecution of the Falun Gong, and credible evidence also supports accusations that the Chinese government harvests executed prisoners’ organs.
For what it’s worth, I’m still inclined to believe the initial reports. One of the parts people forget is that the practitioner/prisoners were moved underground in 2003. If the ChiComs didn’t show anything underground, the embassy staff didn’t really see much anyway.
Furthermore, as you said, the ChiComs took their sweet time before even making any comments (three weeks passed before they issued their first denial).
Let’s also remember the first person to break the story was himself a journalist, and not a practitioner.
And for those reading this who care, neither am I.
Don’t be silly. The ChiComs have more important things to worry about, like securing water and oil resources for China than to respond to every wild allegation made by Falun Gong practioners who believe that aliens brought us technology.
MF, I’ve given up on DJ there. He’ll side with the Devil if it forsakens China.
From speaking with The Australian reporter as well as congressional staffer, US government’s investigation started 2nd week of March and ended with the consular visit on March 21.
Which means “Auschwitz”, thousands including doctors, nurses, gurads, equipments, supply, ration, facilities – only had 5 days to vanish into thin air.
What Epoch claims is science fiction.
Frankly DJ should be outraged by such outlandish claims. Not only did Epoch Times NY discredited his cause, they also disrespected the Jewish people’s suffering by taking the Holocaust in vain.
Hi, Bobby!
Now, just so we have this straight, you would like us to believe that the Communists could not possibly move up to 6,000 prisoners in five days, when we have commuter systems here in the U.S. that are moving more than twice as many people in one.
Do I have that right?
DJ, you are nuts.
Is the NY subway system invisible? Do people vanish into thin air, along with the train and station?
Here’s a real reporter’s first hand experience with the reliability of Epoch Times:
http://holidarity.blogspot.com/2006/04/organ-harvesting-controversy.html
TV Station Confirms Organs Available in China on Demand
Sky TV goes undercover
By Epoch Times Staff Apr 26, 2006
The Orient Organ Transplant Center, a medical center in mainland China that performs a large number of organ transplants.(OOTC.net)
Sky TV aired a report last week that confirms important claims The Epoch Times has made in its own investigations into organ harvesting in China.
This report verifies that:
organs for transplantation are very plentiful in China;
they are available on demand;
the organs are supplied from prisoners;
the prisoners are killed after they are found to match a patient who is awaiting a donor organ.
Reporter Dominic Waghorn and at least one other staff member from Sky TV visited the Orient Organ Transplantation Center in Beijing with a hidden camera, posing as someone whose father needed a liver.
Waghorn begins his report by noting that in China, unlike the West, there is “a seemingly endless supply of livers…the reasons why are deeply sinister.”
The nurse who welcomes him at the hospital cheerfully explains that their hospital can get organs “the fastest” because it has the ” best connections.” Waghorn explains the hospital publicly admits its links to China’s paramilitary police.
Organs on Demand
Waghorn’s organ transplant consultant, Dr. Zhu, explains that the hospital would have no trouble finding a donor. According to Waghorn, he openly admits that the hospital transplants organs harvested from executed prisoners.
Dr. Zhu tells Waghorn, “We will notify your father in advance that we have the donor. We will give him one or two weeks notice.”
In other words, Dr. Zhu is explaining that the hospital will find a living donor, arrange for the patient’s surgery, and once the surgery is scheduled, then arrange for the prisoner’s execution at the appointed time.
In an interview with The Epoch Times Dr. Pang Yubin, a former researcher at the U.S. National Institutes of Health, explained why it must be that the prisoner who matches the patient would be executed to supply the patient requiring an organ.
“I call it ‘opposite matching.’ Why is that? A patient will present with a certain need and in a few days a matching organ is found. As I said earlier, the chance of a match is around one percent. That is, only if there are one hundred live donors there waiting, could this match be possible so quickly…
“For this to occur there must be a huge organ bank. Let us talk in medical terms what organ bank means. In reality, it means that there is a large population of people classed as donors, any one of whom, if they are deemed a match with a potential recipient, would have their organs taken out…”
Waghorn himself reports that the hospital offers livers “on demand.” A conversation with a patient from New York who has had a liver transplant is shown. A translated voice-over says, “We waited ten days” for a liver.
Epoch Times Reporting on Organ Harvesting
The Epoch Times broke the story on March 9 that organs were being harvested from living Falun Gong practitioners at a place called Sujiatun. Subsequent investigation showed that hospitals and transplant centers all over China admitted harvesting organs from living Falun Gong practitioners, even while the facility at Sujiatun transferred out all imprisoned practitioners and disposed of evidence of the organ harvesting.
While the West has known since the early 1990s of the Chinese regime taking organs from executed prisoners, the huge growth in the organ transplant industry in China took place after the persecution of Falun Gong began in 1999.
Waghorn’s report does not raise the issue of Falun Gong practitioners being the primary source of organs harvested in China today or the issue of prisoners having their organs taken from them while still alive.
Waghorn does report that organ transplants for foreigners are helping to fund “a boom” in medicine in China. He notes that at the Orient Organ Transplantation Center foreigners pay 30,000 pounds (approximately US$53,000) for a liver transplant.
Organ removals for tranplantation in China on demand
Yes I believe that this is happening. When you consider that
1. One transplant web site says that it has carried out 35,000 transplant operations in the last 5 years and each year in China about 20,000 transplant operations per year..
2. Its very hard to find a donor match to an unrelated recipient and even harder to find a donor who is not matched racially. You would need to screen approx 100 donors before finding a match. The Chinese transplant centres web sites say the transplant recipients can find matching donors in 2 weeks
3. So for the 35,000 transplant operations in the last 5 years they would have had to screen 3.5 million people. The only way this could logistically be done is with the large amounts of Falun Gong practitioners who are being persecuted and sent to labour camps. Falun Gong practitioners are the primary source of organs donors with no risk of legal complications and or family complaints. They don’t kill them all at the same time so these people’s fate are determined by their own matching status to the recipient which an extremely cruel way to await your death.
4. The witnesses that have come forward are a journalist and a former nurse and wife of a doctor who did cornea transplants at SuJiaTun. These witnesses are not Falun Gong practitioners. The wife divorced her doctor husband on the grounds that she could not live with a man who participated in these murderous operations.. Both witnesses are in USA and they are both safe.
5. SuJiaTun death camp will be as famous as the Nazi camps Auschwitz and Dachau. This is hard to believe for anybody in free countries that this is actually taking place now but in countries like China where human rights are not important then this is not so hard to believe. Our benign human nature has been taken advantage of by evil doers in this world before.
6. What we know of the Chinese communist regime cruelty matches the severe extent of persecution of Falun Gong in the last nearly 7 years. This also matches with the BOOM of organ transplant operations since 2001.
7. The latest news is that if you go to Sujiatun now you will not find anything there now. Remember in the Nazi’s time the Red Cross did not find any evidence that the Jewish people were being exterminated.
If you give the communist regime enough time they will wipe out everything. The UN Rapporteur Manfred Novak was not allowed to go to Shenyang city where SuJiaTun death camp was and now we know why but now he has stated that he will further investigate.
8. Chinese communist regime claims that all donors are executed prisoners. When the International community investigates they will find that the paper work does not match the amount of transplant donors readily available from executed prisoners.
9. The free countries need to recognize how serious and immoral this issue is for humanity. Even if it were true that all donors came from executed prisoners then this raises major ethical problems.. For instance does the prisoner get executed when the right recipient comes along? etc…
10. Evidence is something that convinces us. SARS epidemic was revealed by one retired doctor who heard about it. He wasn’t directly involved in this. Western media jumped on this and it became worldwide news instantly.
“so in other words until this affects the western society it wont be reported widely…..†Thats pretty sad..
Jana,
With all the foreign reserves stashed up from China’s export, you are telling me that China still needs to secretly harvest prisoners to sell their organs? I can understand if these allegations are isolated cases of greedy individuals. In fact, there are many cases of isolated greedy individuals that engages not just in organ transplant but all other sorts of criminal activies. But the Epoch Times article seem to try to create a situation where this is a high level government conspiracy.
HI Mahathir,
I am sorry that I have not informed you very well. There is a genocide of all people who believe in their Gods in China Whether it be Buddhists Christians Muslims and Falun Gong.
The persecution of Falun Gong has lasted nearly 7 years and the latest edict from the politburo was to eradicate Falun Gong by 2008 Olympic games; and to smash their activities overseas.
What quicker way than to dispose of 75 million people than use them as product and then cremate their bodies.
Please do not be under any illusion that the Chinese communist regime is anything other than a brutal vile killing machine with no regard for human life .Do you honestly think that human beings would do this to each other without payment?? The respect for life is cheap in China and if someone can make money off something /someone when it is not illegal to kill Falun Gong practitioners in China they will do it. Because the human conscience has sunk so low (all over the world ) but particularly more so in countries where dictatorships and brutal regimes rule then humans have lost their morality and ability to discern what is right and wrong then you can believe that these monstrosities are taking place.
Little is known owing to extreme censorship propaganda and suppression of truth in China that the vile CCP Chinese communist party has killed 80 million of own people
in the last 56 years of communist rule. Please verify with MAO the untold Story and the Epoch Times editorial series The 9 Commentaries.
The Chinese people themselves will topple the communist regime. No need to start a Government conspiracy. Over 75,000 uprisings last year and 10 million people have resigned from the communist regime already, the communist regime is very afraid they will lose power. They think that by eradicating truth compassion forbearance (the principles that Falun Gong practice) that they will stop the cracks of demise from appearing. The cracks are well exposed But evil being evil cannot think straight they can only kill .
.
Jana, not one thing you’ve cited mentions “Auschwitz” or “concentration camp”.
What happened to Epoch Times’ original charge? Discredited.
If you want to talk about some sane and reasonable crticism of China, fine. But you should be outraged by Epoch Times NY’s outlandish claims. Not only have they discredited your cause, they’s disrespected the Jewish people’s suffering by taking the Holocaust in vain.
As to the issue of consent for organ donation by the condemed, I’ve prepared a single-issue blog on that.
Essentially there are cultural and religious foundations in China we in the West don’t appreciate, and this is a debatable issue even the Chinese themselves are debating.
Bobby,
I believe the Jewish Society is stunned at what is going on in Communist China. Unlike yourself,the Jewish people I know quite like the Epoch Times.
Quote from Epoch Times Op/Ed: Sujiatun, like Auschwitz, is a name that will forever live in infamy.
http://www.theepochtimes.com/news/6-3-10/39144.html
This epic is not as simple as you think and cannot be resolved in one day. There is more going on at Sujiatun than meet the eyes. This is what Lucy Zhou said:
(Cross posted as Western Standard)
“I believe the witness said that the Falun Gong practitioners were detained at an underground facility at Sujiatun (this investigative report point out that practitioners were detained in a underground facility with an exit to this Thrombosis Hospital:
The Concentration Camp was located near a particular hospital in Sujiatun. The whole facility was underground, and was modified from what was originally a “civil air defense” (underground air defense fortification facility) and other ancillary underground facilities. At least one entrance was located at the rear entrance of said hospital. There was nothing appeared out of ordinary above ground. This establishment was a high security area that is totally closed off. It has its own supply system, including underground shops.”
My question is : Were any of the media or the representative from US Embassy invited by the Chiense authority for this guided tours allowed to tour any of the Sujiatun Underground facility? The guided tour seems offered only after weeks
of clean up by the CCP regime.
Also see quote from Flaun Dafa Info Center:
“While the Falun Dafa Info Center applauds U.S. pressure on China’s communist regime over the organ harvesting of Falun Gong followers, it wishes to raise several concerns. What appeared to staff to be absence of evidence of abuse should not be confused with evidence of absence. Notably:
· The first visit, by one staff member, took place two weeks after the camp was first exposed
· The staff member was given a tour, as would be a prospective patient there, by Chinese authorities
· China’s regime had more than ample time, and warning, to sanitize and disguise the camp
· China’s regime quickly removed a number of Websites related to the Sujiatun area, including sites detailing the vast underground tunnel system of Shenyang, of which Sujiatun is a suburb
· China’s regime took fully three weeks to formulate a public reply concerning the camp
· Sources say the PRC has deployed in Sujiatun plainclothes police, posing as vendors, and hired local residents to give false information to investigators and media
· The state-run, Xinhua New Agency admitted on 4/12 that, “There were Falun Gong followers in Sujiatun, but all of them are now receiving rehabilitation [sic] programs in places outside the district.â€
· The Center warned against PRC-facilitated visits, sensing a propaganda maneuver
· China’s regime has lied to foreign investigative bodies before, even when many lives were at risk
· As recently as 2003 it lied to WHO investigators, journalists, and foreign governments about the presence of SARS patients in hospitals; it evacuated hospitals before inspections and hid patients
· Six out of the last seven years China’s regime has refused to meet terms set by UN Torture Inspectors
“There continues to be a large, growing body of evidence that the Sujiatun camp did exist for a period of at least several years, and all indicators are that the camp is responsible for many—possibly thousands—of Falun Gong deaths. Most appalling is that the victims appear to have been subjected to an utterly barbaric form of killing, in which their bodies were first carved up for organs—including corneas, skin, livers, and kidneys—and then sold or transplanted at huge profit,†said Zhang.
WAM, can you cite anything that’s non-FLG?
From speaking to reporters and congressional staffers, US government’s investigation of Sujiatun started 2nd week of March and ended with the consular visit on 3/21.
For “Auschwitz” to disappear into thin air in 5 days – thousands including doctors, nurses, guards, hospital equipments, supply, ration, facility.
That’s science fiction.
How lovely:
“absence of evidence … should not be confused with evidence of absence”
Yet absence of evidence is magic evidence of presence?
US media that is universally unfriendly to China has yet to pick up this story because it is pro-Nazism? Get real, Epoch’s claim is suspect. Here’s a reporter’s first-hand experience with Epoch:
http://holidarity.blogspot.com/2006/04/organ-harvesting-controversy.html
I don’t think the organ-harvesting story can be put to bed just yet. There’s a lot more nasty stuff going to come out in the wash before this is over. Tens of thousands of Falun Gong practitioners have gone missing over the last seven years. They were picked up by police and haven’t been seen since. Their families have searched for them but haven’t found a trace. They’re not in the labour camps, they’re not in the brainwashing centres, they’re not in the mental hospitals. Where are they?
Do you have any verifiable proof?
Murph, your dear Dr. Wang Wenyi, the lead research for the “Sujiatun Auschwitz” story, basically went nuts at the White House lawn, after State Dept said her story is not credible.
Given Dr. Wang’s profession as a pathologist, and New York’s recent string of grisly illegal cadaver organ harvesting cases, it’s not hard to see how she put two and two together and rehashed the 1970’s era anti-communist tall tale of people sentenced to vivisection.
HI Bobby if you wait for verifiable proof by this i think you mean bodies then it will be too late wont it??
The Jewish people were telling of their persecution for 4 years before the war ended and the allied forces walked into Auschwitz and found that it was all true.
As for Ms Wang think upon this…
“Civil disobedience becomes a scared duty when the state becomes lawless or corrupt, Such is the case with Chinese communist regime today. China is a lawless state and defiant of universal norms of behaviour.”
If you knew that your family or brethren or colleagues were being massacred and you saw the man who could stop it 30 meters away shake hands with the most powerful man in the world pretending to be all nice and dignified, wouldn’t you also have done the same thing?
If not then there is something deeply wrong with your conscience Bobby. Either you are working for the Chinese communist regime internet spies and doing their dirty work in which case you can be forgiven as any Falun Gong practitioner will tell you. Or it could be more sinister than that and that you just don’t care in your free world. In which case i don’t even want to think what your future will be like this life or next.
Jana, if you want people to take you seriously, why are you pulling the “you are a spy” crap?
What, can’t deal with the facts, now you want to go after the messenger?
Falun Dafa Association NY’s mouth piece, Epoch Times NY, levied a very serious charge of “Auschwitz”, and serious proof is required.
I hope you will be afforded reason and assumed innocent until proven guilty for the crimes you’re committing.
(See, I can curse you too. Now our 5 year old egos are even.)
HI Bobby,
We have 2 witnesses that have come forward who are not Falun Gong practitioners and have risked their lives and had to move away from China to USA to bring this evidence to the world.
What more evidence do you want.? A Chinese veteran military Doctor who has been in the thick of it who cannot reveal his identify as yes he will be slaughtered too. He chooses to remain in China so that he can continue revealing more information as it comes to hand.
Want more proof?? All of a sudden the organ transplant operations have escalated in the last month in China because guess what SuJiaTun death camp has been whitewashed and the Falun Gong practitioners have been moved to another secret concentration camp meanwhile as we speak their organs are being removed while under a light anaesthesia so they don’t move and still you want more proof.
Nothing short of the Chinese Communist regime admitting it would make you believe and we both know that is never going to happen until it is too late to save any more Falun Gong practitioners or Christians Muslim Catholics or other prisoners of conscience.
The Chinese communist regime will not allow any international organisation to go into China unless it states the times place dates.. How can we prove material existence at this stage? Wake up Bobbie who are you protecting here? Not the innocent.
There is legal term called reverse burden of proof.
Reverse Burden of Proof Is in the Law
The popular interpretation of “burden of proof” is that whoever proposes any position should present evidence to support his position. If one party accuses another party of something, the accuser should provide evidence to validate his accusation.
This means that if the accuser (that’s Falun Gong) provides evidence such as 1. objects and statements 2. Witnesses statements 3. Victims statements 4. Suspects of accused persons Defense statements 5. Checking conclusions 6. investigation and Testimonial records 7. Audio visual materials.
This acceptable evidence to take to court and used with the reverse Burden of proof Law.
Please read below..
In modern civilized societies, however, under certain circumstances, the responsibility to present evidence is reversed. If the accuser has circumstantial evidence and traces of evidence, he can propose the indictment, while the accused must provide concrete evidence to prove his innocence. If the accused fails to do so, there is reason to believe that he is guilty.
Reversal of the burden of proof is usually applied when the accused is in possession of, or monopolizes, the evidence. One example is medical accidents: the patient may lack medical knowledge and evidence, but if he was treated and harmed at a hospital, he can press charges against that hospital, while the hospital bears the burden of proof and has to show that it was not responsible for the harm done to the patient.
Reversal of the burden of proof does stand in these situations on the basis of justice and moral principles. A civilized society prevents those with power from harming and exploiting less powerful groups. Since the CCP is a violent, totalitarian regime that brutalizes its people and blocks information, reversal of the burden of proof becomes absolutely necessary in order to uphold justice.
So what I am saying is that most people with something to gain or lose in this matter would look at the evidence so far and knowing what the communist regime is like, what its history is, I mean 80 million of its own people killed in the last 56 years in so called peace times, would be able to form the rationale that yes the CCP is capable of this and yes Falun Gong seems pretty innocent enough .
They don’t kill people or hurt people . Yes only the Chinese communist regime can find fault with Falun Gong Let me see Falun Gong practices Truth compassion tolerance. And the Chinese communist regime practices deceit propaganda, murder torture, persecution intolerance .. Even my kids can see that …..
So if they haven’t done what we have accused them of them what have they got to hide?? Let us in anywhere anytime to all forced labour camps, jails, concentration camps, Hospitals mental institutions . Allow Western Falun Gong practitioners to come into China with International organisations and Media and hey prove us wrong… WE will go for the reverse burden of proof…
I live in a very small town in rural Australia and guess what the Communist regime are worried about me because they have my phone number and early in 2005 I received about 26 phone calls over 3days with pre-recorded messages in Chinese and English trying to intimidate me from exposing their evil deeds and help save innocent Falun Gong practitioners lives.
So yes I know there are a lot of people working for the Chinese communist regime everywhere and one of the biggest places is the internet.
What interest do you have?? Who are you protecting?? simple questions.
And yes we believe that when you die only this layer of molecules sloughs off while the other bodies made up of more microscopic particles remain alive in other dimensions ie what is commonly know as spirit.
You must pay for your bad deeds in this lifetime (Karma) and you will also be rewarded for your good deeds.. So no curse Bobby from me.. The universal laws will managed that naturally. I hope that with all my heart for your sake that you wake up and realize who the bad guys are here ..
The two Epoch Times witness you are refering to remain unverifiable.
You can call Mike Steketee of The Australian yourself (I have). You can also call US Congress (I have).
Keep cursing me with that “you must pay for you bad deed” crap.
And you win on the “microscopic particles remain alive in other dimensions” stuff.
HI you have 1 media report against many third party reports we have now and a congress visit /report that allowed the Chinese communist regime 3 weeks to get the remaining live people out and moved to one of the many other concentration camps in China that are used to brutally remove organs while people are barely anesthetised and sell them to the world.
I have so many third party news articles now that have come out and exposed the flurry of organ transplants that re happening now as we speak Bobby.
The evidence is so much yet you stick to one media article and one foul up.
Who are you trying to protect here?
Please help me understand why you are choosing to head in this direction?. I even have a report from a German Company who left China in 1998 because they could not ethically support the organ trade business.see below
I ask you where are all the Thousands of thousands of Falun Gong practitioners gone in China? WE are expendable according to the dictate of the communist regime.
We have no legal rights we are arrested illegally for meditating and practising truth compassion and tolerance and we disappear off the face of the earth with our families never knowing the outcome except that they are never coming back.
Here is this article about the German business who also say the military is involved in coordinating these organ pools and removals and transplants. I can send you so much more Bobby and I hope with all my heart that you understand the urgency of this horrific situation. The communist regime in China has turned some people in China into demons on earth they are not human anymore if they will do these sorts of tortures, murder for money.
I wish you well Bobby and I hope that you will understand the gravity of this situation and what this means for humanity.
German Company to Leave China Over Sales of Organs
By EDMUND L. ANDREWS
A German company has abruptly announced that it is abandoning its half-interest in a kidney dialysis center in Guangzhou, China, admitting that Chinese military officials had probably made it an unintentional accomplice in the selling of organs from executed prisoners to wealthy foreigners.
Fresenius Medical Care A. G., based in this suburb of Frankfurt, said its decision, announced on Thursday, was prompted by a report by ABC News last fall. But the terse announcement, on the eve of an equally grisly report by the German newsmagazine Stern, raised almost as many questions as it answered.
Fresenius, which acquired its stake in the center from W. R. Grace & Company in late 1996, said it had conducted its own investigation and discovered that foreign patients were receiving dialysis treatment at the center and may well have been ”receiving kidney organs harvested from executed Chinese criminals.”
The announcement was made less than two weeks after F.B.I. agents arrested two Chinese Government officials in New York and charged them with trying to market human organs in the United States that came from executed political prisoners. Those arrests, which occurred after videotaped meetings in which the officials tried to arrange organ sales, provided evidence that the Chinese Government may be harvesting organs from prisoners.
The issue for Fresenius stems from a kidney dialysis center located at a military hospital complex in Guangzhou, near Hong Kong. National Medical Care, a subsidiary of W. R. Grace, launched the center in a joint venture with the Chinese hospital complex in 1994, and Fresenius bought the Grace subsidiary 18 months ago.
The dialysis center was not directly involved with organ transplants. But the military complex operates a separate hospital for organ transplants on the same campus, and both ABC News and Stern have reported that the dialysis center served kidney patients while they waited for transplanted organs that were removed from prisoners after they were executed by firing squads.
Oliver Heieck, a spokesman for Fresenius, said today that his company still does not know exactly what took place at the center. But the company did determine that foreign patients used the center for relatively short periods, and that the only logical reason a person would travel to China for dialysis would be if that person was waiting for a kidney transplant nearby.
Mr. Heieck would not say how many foreigners had been treated, where they came from or what the coompany had learned from examining their medical records. Mr. Heieck said the company played no role in operating the center, and had merely been a supplier of the filters and other equipment. The company’s senior executives refused to be interviewed on the subject.
W. R. Grace, which helped set up the center as part of a chain of dialysis centers, has said it knew nothing about the sale of organs for transplant. In dialysis treatment, patients with kidney failure are hooked up to machines that remove poisonous waste from their blood. Dialysis, though usually effective, is very uncomfortable and often leaves patients weak and sick. Kidney transplants eliminate the need for dialysis, but the supply of healthy organs from people who have just died is far less than the demand.
In its report this week, Stern magazine recounted the names of people who had been executed for crimes like theft. Both ABC and Stern reported that their organs were removed after the execution and taken to the transplant hospital. Both organizations also interviewed a Thai woman who received a kidney transplant as well as dialysis treatment, but who has regretted her action and recounted her experience in public.
Mr. Heieck said his company had no idea of the dialysis center’s possible role in such kidney transplants. He said the center was run entirely by Chinese doctors and technical staff, and that Fresenius had only one representative in Hong Kong who kept an eye on operations.
Fresenius said it had no access to information at the hospital where transplants take place, which is completely under military control. Company officials could only verify that some of the dialysis patients were foreigners, and that these foreigners had stayed for only a few weeks. Because kidney failure is a permanent condition that can only be ”cured” by getting new kidneys, dialysis patients usually undergo treatments several times a week for years at a time.
HO Bobby here are a collection of some of the most important ones. Yes some from The Epoch TImes but many from third party.
Media reports regarding the harvesting of organs from
Falun Gong practitioners in China
China ‘selling prisoners’ organs’
By Jill McGivering
BBC News
“Top British transplant surgeons have accused China of harvesting the organs of thousands of executed prisoners every year to sell for transplants.
In a statement, the British Transplantation Society condemned the practice as unacceptable and a breach of human rights.
The move comes less than a week after Chinese officials publicly denied the practice took place.
In March, China said it would ban the sale of human organs from July.
‘Selection’
The British Transplantation Society says an accumulating weight of evidence suggests the organs of thousands of executed prisoners in China are being removed for transplants without consent.
Professor Stephen Wigmore, who chairs the society’s ethics committee, told the BBC that the speed of matching donors and patients, sometimes as little as a week, implied prisoners were being selected before execution. “
….
“Transplant tourism
Professor Wigmore said: “The weight of evidence has accumulated to a point over the last few months where it’s really incontrovertible in our opinion.
“We feel that it’s the right time to take a stance against this practice.â€
The emergence of transplant tourism has made the sale of health organs even more lucrative.
Patients increasingly come from Western countries, including the UK, as well as Japan and South Korea.â€
Published: 2006/04/19 00:03:46 GMT
© BBC MMVI
……………………….
Military Hospital Openly Admits Transplant Organs Come from Falun Gong Practitioners
By Li Sisi and Tang Mei
Sound of Hope Radio
May 02, 2006
On April 28, a Sound of Hope journalist made contact with one kidney transplant surgeon in Beijing. The surgeon said, because there were more organ donors in Sichuan province, China, he had been temporarily transferred to Sichuan local military hospital to help out. The doctors in the Air Force Hospital admitted they had young and healthy Falun Gong practitioner donors.
[Download telephone recording from Sound of Hope.]
Air Force Hospital Department Chief Xu Yahong, who has 22 years experience said the hospital started to bring in kidney transplant surgery in the middle of 1980s. Up to now, he personally had performed around 500 operations, and in the past two to three years, he has performed an average of 100 surgeries in a year.
Xu Yahong: “I have totally performed around 500 surgeries, but for the past two three years, an average of 100 operations in a year.â€
Xu Yahong said, there would be a batch of kidney donors in the middle of May, and there would be volunteer donors, and that the hospital could provide young and healthy Falun Gong practitioners’ organs.
Journalist: “Is that right! There will be quite a lot of donors in May?â€
Xu Yahong: “That’s right. We perform surgeries every month. Around May 20, before end of May, there should not be any problem; we carry supplies all the time. Speaking in a conservative way we still have other supplies, but, regarding this, I think we should talk about this issue after we meet. We have young donors.â€
http://www.theepochtimes.com/news/6-5-2/41097.html
……………………………………….
Australians Obtaining Organs From Executed Prisoners
By Shar Adams
Epoch Times Australia Staff
May 01, 2006
“At a site for the Beijing International Medical Support Centre, four hospitals promote different transplant facilities but all state that: “The donor organs come from people that are executed in China.â€
The Chinese Communist Party owns all hospitals in China and is quite open about executed prisoners being used for organ donation.
Western medical professionals are told that all donors have given informed consent but Dr. Campbell does not give this statement much credence.
“I am not quite sure that any process that involves the execution of a prisoner could be described as ‘informed consent’,†he said.â€
http://www.theepochtimes.com/news/6-5-1/41062.html
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Epoch Times interviews with two witnesses from China and information re organ harvesting
http://www.theepochtimes.com/211,111,,1.html
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Australian doctors concerned over ‘‘Transplant tourism”
December 24, 2005
“Health industry seniors here have reacted with horror and disgust over the news that dozens of Australians are travelling to India and China to buy transplant organs.
Seven transplant recipients are reported to have travelled to China to receive organs of the death row prisoners.
A significant number of them have also received organs of Indian ‘donors’ in what has been dubbed as ‘‘transplant tourism”. “
Copyright © 2000-2005 Suni System (P) Ltd.
This article posted January 15, 2006.
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Why Wang Wenyi Was Shouting
Is Beijing committing atrocities against the Falun Gong movement?
by Ethan Gutmann
05/08/2006, Volume 011, Issue 32
“There were extra “patients†in the subterranean depths of the hospital, and some makeshift operating rooms down there, too. When his cell phone rang, it meant that a “patient†had been wheeled in and given a small dose of anesthesia (the hospital had a limited supply). Then he and the other doctors–some hired from the outside, each with a specialty, all constantly on call–would come in and remove the patient’s kidneys, skin tissue, corneas, and other organs, seemingly to order. The remains of the “patient†would then be carried down to the old boiler, which doubled as an incinerator. The workers who disposed of the bodies–sometimes still alive–helped themselves to the occasional watch, necklace, or ring as a kind of tip.
The “patients‖men and women, old and young–were all Falun Gong practitioners. It was so much easier that way–no arrest warrants, no need for paper work. If a diagnosis had to be stipulated for some reason, the entry read “mentally destroyed,†and the cause of death “suicide.†The doctors’ silence was bought with generous financial rewards, the assurance that they were simply “cleansing†for the party, and the vague threat implicit in the observation that if you had already done some of these operations then what difference would a few more make? Buck up!â€
…………….
“Finally, Yang’s team also placed a call to the workers in the boiler room of the Sujiatun hospital. The call confirmed that they burned bodies and had watches to sell.
If it is true that imprisoned practitioners of Falun Gong are being murdered for their organs in China, a remaining question is the scale of the practice. The number of Falun Gong practitioners in custody is disputed; estimates by the Chinese dissident community range from 235,000 to one million or more. An unnamed military doctor from the mainland told Epoch Times that Sujiatun is one of 36 such facilities, created following the directive of Liu Jing, China’s former deputy minister of public security, to “stamp out†Falun Gong “before the Olympic Games in 2008.†And for several years now, rumors have circulated on the mainland of a death camp in Xinjiang capable of holding 50,000 Falun Gong practitioners.
Personally, I fear the worst. One reason is that the Chinese authorities have always handled Falun Gong with a peculiar vehemence, even in comparison with other enemies of the CCP. When Falun Gong was declared illegal on July 21, 1999, ancient sound trucks drove around Beijing to make sure that no one missed the point. That’s unusual. At the time, I was working in Chinese television, and I remember the day well. Several of my Chinese colleagues began laughing nervously and buried their faces in their hands, muttering that they had not seen such a thing since the Cultural Revolution. Since then, Falun Gong participants have regularly disappeared, with no arrest record, nothing but an assigned number, leaving them particularly vulnerable.â€
Ethan Gutmann is the author of Losing the New China. He has been a frequent speaker at forums organized by the Falun Gong-associated publication Epoch Times.
© Copyright 2006, News Corporation, Weekly Standard, All Rights Reserved.
http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/012/160ymog
j.asp
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A few more regards Jana
China harvesting inmates’ organs, journalist says
By Bill Gertz
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
Published March 24, 2006
“A Chinese journalist has uncovered a secret detention center in northern China that is being used by a hospital to harvest human organs for sale to domestic and international buyers.
Mr. Jin said he came across the underground detention center while researching the Chinese government’s response to the Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome (SARS).
A Chinese official was the first person to reveal that secret medical work was being done at the Liaoning Provincial Thrombosis Hospital of Integrated Chinese and Western Medicine, in Sujiatun, a suburb of Shenyang, the major city in northeastern China, he said.
Mr. Jin then said he found out that a large underground prison was built beneath the hospital and that members of the outlawed Falun Gong religious group were being held there. As many as 6,000 people are thought to be held prisoner at the underground facility, he said.â€
…
“Several other hospital workers also revealed details about the prisoner organ harvesting. Mr. Jin said he had to hide his true identity after being threatened by Chinese government agents. He was arrested twice for his reporting and recently fled to the United States, where he hopes to seek political asylum.
…
Mr. Jin said bodies of the prisoners were burned in the boiler room of the hospital and that boiler room workers had taken jewelry and watches from the dead and sold them. He said he has provided information about the organ harvesting to U.S. government officials, including members of Congress.â€
http://www.washingtontimes.com/functions/print.php?StoryID=20060323-114842-5680r
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A Place Called Sujiatun
Are they killing Falun Gong, for their organs?
By Jay Nordlinger, NR Managing Editor
March 30, 2006, 7:22 a.m.
“There is a horrifying story going around the world: In the northeast of China, thousands of prisoners are being held, so that they can be killed for their organs. The prisoners are practitioners of Falun Gong, the meditation-and-exercise system. The facility at which they are being held – called a “concentration camp†or a “death camp†– is at Sujiatun. Chinese human-rights activists believe that this name should cause the same shudders as Treblinka and the others.
I cannot say whether this story is true; I can say that one ought to pay attention.
Of course, “organ-harvesting†is a very familiar story: The PRC has been doing it, with prisoners, for many years. In 2001, the U.S. Congress held hearings on the matter, which caused a sensation. But the sensation died down, as sensations tend to do. Organ-harvesting has gone on, with no negative consequences for the Chinese government. Organ-selling is a huge business for the Chinese. You can obtain organs in China as you can nowhere else: any type, and very speedily.
………….
“You don’t understand my suffering. Those Falun Gong practitioners were alive. It might be easier for me if they were dead, but they were alive.â€
The woman also said this, to the Epoch Times: “Some poor farmers from nearby places were hired to work in the boiler room. [This served as the crematory.] They were penniless when they first came. . . . But they could scrape up some watches, finger rings, necklaces, and so on. The amount is not small.â€
…
Finally, she said, “I would like to expose this to the international community, so those who are not yet killed can be saved. Also, I would like to expose this as an atonement for my family.†Now to the Chinese journalist: His name is Jin Zhong – or so he calls himself for the purpose of media reports. I spoke to him when I was meeting with some Falun Gong activists in a New York conference room. One of them, Charles Lee, was recently released from a Chinese prison after three years’ confinement. He was tortured, and I will be writing about him in the next issue of National Review. Dr. Lee is a U.S. citizen, by the way.
And, in a strange twist, he bore witness to organ-harvesting, while a young medical researcher in China, years ago. Prisoners would be shot in the back of the head, and their bodies would be hustled to a waiting van. There, doctors would extract their organs; Charles Lee served as an assistant, holding the instruments. Sometimes, the prisoners seemed not quite dead, he says. Before Dr. Lee and I talked, I was able to interview Jin Zhong by phone, using an associate of Dr. Lee’s as a translator.
….
Peter Worthington concluded a piece in the Toronto Sun this way: “China’s use of prisoners as guinea pigs, or as a supply to meet world demand, makes Nazi medical experimentation seem almost benign by comparison.â€
No one should bet that Sujiatun will penetrate the world’s consciousness. Governments everywhere are keen on smooth relations with the PRC; media, even in free countries, seem to want to help them. The reluctance of major newspapers and TV networks to report on atrocities in China is a sad subject.
http://www.nationalreview.com/nordlinger/nordlinger200603300722.asp
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US presses China for probe on Falun Gong organ harvesting claim
31 March 2006
Agence France Presse
“WASHINGTON, March 31, 2006 (AFP) – The United States pressed China Friday for a probe into claims by the Falun Gong spiritual group that thousands of its followers at Chinese concentration camps have been killed and their organs harvested and sold.â€
…
“In a statement Friday, the movement, quoting “a veteran medical doctor who has served in the Shenyang military zone,†said there were 36 such camps and that “the scope of the problem far exceeds that previously imagined.†The largest camp, codenamed “672-S,†is said to hold over 120,000 people, among whom are Falun Gong and other “prisoners of conscience,†it said.
…
The Chinese communist leadership consider the rise of Falun Gong as a mass movement and a threat to its power, rights groups have said. Since the banning of the Falun Gong in 1999, estimates of adherents who died in custody due to torture, abuse and neglect ranged from several hundred to a few thousand, according to the State Department annual human rights report released in early March.â€
…
AFP
HI Bobby one more from The Epoch Times about Israeli panelists brought with them a petition signed by over 10,000 Jews urging the discussion of Chinese organ harvesting death camps specifically in Auschwitz.
Organ Harvesting in Chinese Death Camps Discussed at Auschwitz Forum
By Jan Jekielek
Epoch Times Staff on assignment in Poland May 10, 2006
AUSCHWITZ: Professor Sen Nieh, surrounded by three panelists and panel moderator, speaks at the “Never Again: Appeal to the World” forum discussing illegal organ harvesting in death camps in China, held in Auschwitz, Poland on May 9, 2006. (Jan Jekielek/The Epoch Times)
Related Articles
– Military Hospital Openly Admits Transplant Organs Come from Falun Gong Practitioners
Tuesday, May 02, 2006 7:07:00 PM
AUSCHWITZ—There is compelling evidence of widespread illegal organ harvesting in China, said a panel of human rights advocates from the United States, Israel, Australia, and Poland, at The Epoch Times -sponsored “Never Again: Appeal to the World” Forum in Auschwitz, Poland on May 9. Panelists speaking at the Center for Dialogue and Prayer, also called for an urgent independent international inquiry into the allegations, to stop a possible accelerated slaughter of camp inmates in advance of a new Chinese law restricting organ harvesting from prisoners.
“The numbers just don’t add up,” said Dr. Jianmei Yu, Project Leader of Pre-Clinical Research Collaboration at the US Iomai Corporation. An “unexplained” organ bank is the only way to account for a large disparity between Beijing’s published numbers of executions, and the orders of magnitude-larger numbers of transplants advertised by organ transplant centers in China.
Massive Organ Bank
Chinese Deputy Minister of Health Huang Jiefu admitted in November 2005 that 95 percent of organ transplants in China come from executed death row prisoners, though other Chinese authorities have recently denied this practice.
However, in just one of the over 400 hospitals performing organ transplants in China, Tianjin Orient Organ Transplant Center, more organ transplants are performed than could reasonably come from the sum of all executions across China, said Dr. Jianmei.
NEVER AGAIN: The Chinese panelists at the “Never Again: Appeal to the World” forum on organ harvesting death camps in China walk through the infamous “Work Shall Set You Free” gate at the Auschwitz-Birkenau Memorial and Museum, on May 9, 2006. (Jan Jekielek/The Epoch Times)After initial allegations of an organ harvesting death camp in Sujiatun, Shenyang Province surfaced last March, the Chinese communist regime waited for three weeks before denying the charges. Then, on the following day, it announced a new law that would restrict future organ harvesting from prisoners. Chinese insiders have suggested that the law could be a message to those involved in illegal organ harvesting to close up shop, because of increased international attention.
The two sources exposing Sujiatun have said that the organs were taken almost exclusively from incarcerated Falun Gong practitioners. Panelist Ms. Zhizhen Dai, whose husband was captured, tortured, and killed by Chinese authorities in 2001 because he practiced Falun Gong, urged the world to act to stop the torture and slaughter of innocent people.
Journalists calling various organ transplant centers around China in late March and early April discovered many hospitals were urging prospective patients to come in as quickly as possible for their transplants, as fewer organs would be available in the near future. This led investigators to fear the worst: That people are being slaughtered for their organs at an accelerated pace before the new rules come into effect.
PAIN LINGERS: Ms. Zhizhen Dai, panelist at the “Never Again: Appeal to the World” forum discussing illegal organ harvesting in death camps in China, speaks of the 2001 torture and murder of her husband at the hands of Chinese authorities. Her daughter Fadu naps in her arms. The forum was held in Auschwitz, Poland on May 9, 2006. (Jan Jekielek/The Epoch Times)Victims of Genocide Speak Out
Israeli panelists brought with them a petition signed by over 10,000 Jews urging the discussion of Chinese organ harvesting death camps specifically in Auschwitz.
They included Larisa Vilsker, whose father was one of two members of her Polish Jewish family who survived the holocaust.
“My whole existence and consciousness would not accept or believe that this phenomenon can still happen,” she said, speaking about learning of the recent evidence of organ harvesting in China.
“Hundreds of thousands of people are submitted to harvesting their internal organs for sale…I see it as my moral obligation to call, with your assistance, to the international community, to expose the heart of such evil quickly.”
INTERESTED: Dr. Jianmei Yu speaks to a captivated audience of over 20 Polish congressmen and senators at the “Law and Justice” Party club in the Sejm, the Polish Parliament in Warsaw, Poland on May 9, 2006. (Jan Jekielek/The Epoch Times)Engage the People
Professor Sen Nieh, President of The Epoch Times Washington, DC Bureau, spoke of political and social instabilities in China today, of an enormous inequality between the affluent and the poor, and of the growing phenomenon of communist cadres in China quitting the Chinese Communist Party.
“The party is like a shiny red apple on the outside, but totally rotten at the core,” he said, suggesting that the world in engage the Chinese people, as opposed to the Chinese regime, which in his view does not represent them at all.
Following the conference, the panel toured the Auschwitz-Birkenau Memorial and Museum, and then left for Warsaw to present their findings at a meeting in the Sejm, the Polish Parliament, with over 20 Polish congressmen and senators.
Copyright 2000 – 2005 Epoch Times International
Jana, feel free to flood korealiberator, I’ll just breiefly point out the Falun Gong prapaganda you presented:
– the two witness “Anna” and “Peter” remains unverifiable.
– reverse proof has been provided, multiple US government investigation found Falun Gong’s “Auschwitz” claims not verifiable.
– Epoch Times’ “3 week claim” is BS. US State Dept’s investigation started 2nd week of March and ended on 3/21 with the consular visit. The Australian reported investigation by Africa, Global HR & IO Subcommittee was even earlier.
– all of your citations are in infact exclusively Falun Gong’s. Jay Nording says “I cannot say whether this story is true”.
– I showed one of those gory photos aimed to solitict emotional response to a pathologist friend, and he says Falun Gong’s claim is BS. The elaborate incision around the neck is to reveal the hyoid bone (for signs of strangulation). It’s only performed for murder investigation – you CCP wouldn’t bother.
Plus, there’s no neck organ to harvest for transplantation. The incision and suture were done posthumously; it’s an autopsy photo, not vivisection.
Here’re the facts, deal with it.
Bobby ,
Who says the two witnesses are unverifiable?? You?? The Canadian parliament has just cast vote to investigate these claims thoroughly by going to China and interviewing all the witnesses, The 2 you mention are not Falun Gong and there are many Falun Gong who are witnesses and they also will be investigated thoroughly .The hope to have the investigation completed ASAP. Talk to me then.
I repeat in asking you Bobby why do you stand up for the Chinese Communist regime?? You have failed to answer that question that I have asked of you many times??
I don’t feel I should even dignify your question with an answer, really. I stand up for facts, and Epoch Time’s “Auschwitz” story, made in anticipation of Chinese leader’s stateside visit, IMHO is bunk per my factual citation.
You can make insinuation all you want, but the fact is you have no proof.
And you are lying about the Canadian parliment. That guy is an ex-MP, meaning he is not part of the Canadian parliment.
“Peter” and “Anna” being unverifiable is not my opinion. Here’s a reporter’s first hand account of Epoch Time’s credibility problem:
http://holidarity.blogspot.com/2006/04/organ-harvesting-controversy.html
Dear Bobby there are 7 Canadian Parlimentariains who are supporting the Coalitation to Investigate the perecution of Falun Gong in China in investigatimg all labour camps concentration camps,hosptials, 610 Offices offices and all related
institutions. One in Australia so far.A few in the Congress of USA. And of course the Eurpoean Council’s motion who have 11 in support. The list is growing.
Why do you support murder torture rape, no freedom to have a realtionship with your God?
So i ask you again Bobby so that all the readers can understand why is that you are supporting a brutal evil communist regime instead of those who wish to have a relationship with their God?
You have undignified yourself Bobby. Save your soul.
Curse me all you want. You are only showing the world that you have no answer for the facts presented, and you are going after the messenger.
Feel free to repeat that emotionally satisfying indictment “people disagree with me are spies” crap. If you have proof turn me in, don’t wast my time.
Look what just happened. Your “cast vote to investigate” turned into “supporting the [FLG]Coalitation to Investigate”.
Where’s your truth?
Hmnn Bobby are you by any chance from the Jewish faith? I remember reading something a while ago maybe a blog further up the line here ??
If you are thats no problem and is not the issue except that if your are while claiming that Genocide and Holocaust only can happen to the Jewish people then there is the problem.
So you say you are the messanger ? Why are you delivering this message and who are you delivering it for?
Just so you know we are going after the Communist regime by exposing who and what they have done in a completly non violent peaceful way.
We care for people who have been mislead by the vile communist regime. WE offer the truth to any who will listen and then they can make their own decison. I think that I have tried a little too much with you Bobby so you are on your own messanger.
And I am not cursing you. You have a strange way of viewing things Bobby.
It just makes no sense to me why you would prefer to believe a regime that is known for its depravity, with no regard for human life and a track record as the most brutal regime in history over the many who wish to believe in their Gods openly and honestly.
It really is as simple as that. I repeat I have no desire or need to curse you. Universal laws will reward good with good and evil with evil. There is no curse from human beings that work., Human beings havee no power to do anything like that.That only creates bad karma for them.
May you find peace Bobby I wish you well.
Still going after the messenger aren’t you? Now you have a slant against the Jews? Good lord I’m so glad I’m now Jewish. Everybody knows Jews were the most affected people by the Holocause, and for Falun Gong to expolit “Auschwitz” to further their political agenda, which you have plainly proclaimed, to me is very shameful.
If you believe in universl laws, then I hope you will look into Epoch Times’ well-timed, politically motivated, “Auschwitz” accusation – made in anticipation of Chinese leader’s stateside visit.
Perhaps it’s your karma you need to worry about. UN’s investigation will come out soon, and I god damn will get to the bottom of it.
Dear Bobby, your motivation is the same as mine “UN’s investigation will come out soon, and I god damn will get to the bottom of it.”
Me too Bobby Me too , Lets hope that because China is a major State player in the UN that the new UN Council doesnt cave into bribery and corruption the same way it has in the recent past causing the fall of the recent UN Human Rights Commiittee this year.
Which is why the Coalition to Investigate the Persecution of FAlun Gong (CIPFG) was formed and 81 congressmen in USA, 7 Canadian MPs 1 Human rights lawyer, 11 European Council members, 1 Australian MP signed the agreement to investigate independently and the list is being added to every day. Falun Gong practitoners will lead the way around all the known labour camps the 36 concentration camps, tranplant hosptials,and 610 office etc.The independent investigation will take also mainstream media to tell the story.
Personally I’ll put my bet on this CIPFG instead of the UN. Manfred Novak found the Communist regime to be very controlling by not allowing him to freely move to areas that he had been tipped off as being the worst. As a result in his report he said that there is too much wide spread torture and suppression with too many executions still happening in China today and people that I have interviewed are too scared to speak freely.
Lets speak then and thanks for your all your sharing..much appreciated
And I just know when UN investigation discredits Epoch Times NY’s fabricated sotry, you all will just respond with the same old “Auschwitz vanished”, “China doesn’t allow investigation” crap.
Never mind two US investigations started in 2nd week of March already discredited the “Auschwitz” accusation.
I showed one of those grisly photo from Epoch to a pathologist friend, and he called Epoch’s lie right away:
– the elaborate incisions around the neck is to reveal the hyoid bone. It’s only done for murder investigation. Your CCP, if as claimed, wouldn’t care.
– there’s no organs around the neck area to harvest.
This photo doesn’t show torture, but simply a autopsy photo aimed to solicit emotional reaction.
I wouldn’t place so much faith on the pretend-NGO FLG group. Some of their data is suspect. For example one of the press claimed 7 year wait for organ in US.
When I looked into it, the claim is simply false. Here’re 1995-2004 clinical data from ustransplant.org:
http://www.ustransplant.org/annual_reports/current/105_dh.htm
– USA with 1/4 of China’s population, performs over twice as many liver transplants yearly (10,000 in 2004.)
– 2004 data shows top 10% of wait list average 10 day wait
– 2004 data shows top 25% of wait list average 43 day wait
– Majority of median wait time, for all type of transplantation, do not exceed one year.
Bobby,
you’re coming across as pretty desperate to destroy the credibility of a story that is in fact plausible. I don’t know what to think yet, but since China does have quite a history of abuse, this would not be a surprise.
I don’t think the Falun Gong would be “exploiting Auschwitz,” if what they say is remotely true. It is plausible to say that it is AT LEAST remotely true. The UN is by no means the final authority on something like this, as they hardly have been historically. China has demonstrated behavior that certainly would not put something like this beyond it. They have a bit of a reputation. Not one that would cause a reasonable person to freak out against one that makes an accusation against it.
I’m betting the truth will come out someway, whatever it is.
Kev, feel free to check the facts I cited. The truth is already out:
– US State Dept. discredited FLG’s “Auschwitz” claim already.
– The clinic Epoch accused is a joint-venture with a company affaliated with the Malaysian government. Malay officials have visited the clinic in previous years:
I have never heard of death camp advertising for foreign investment and official tour.
While I agree China’s human rights abuse should be examined, writing allegory of “Schindler’s List” is not the way.
If we in the West can not be precise with our facts, only resort to nefarious indictment, who will take what we say seriousely?
Dear Bobby,
The facts were there during the holocaust for 5 years before they discovered the grisly and unfortunate truth about the Genocide of the Jewish people to all of our shame including Governments and Media and big business .. Can we learn from our mistakes and not repeat history?
Innocent people are being murdered and have been for the last 7 years with Falun Gong and the last 60 years with innocent Chinese citizens from the vile CCP.
Genocide has no creed culture or race. It was just as hard back in the WW11 as we couldn’t go into Germany to look for concentration camps either but to our shame we did not listen to the witnesses who had the information either.
I do believe there was an invitation from the German Govt to inspect a POW camp, to dispel the rumours. When the international team got there they found a holiday resort.
Now we know better but too many innocent people lost their lives because we did not act knowing that the Hitler’s regime was capable of these heinous crimes. Just like now we know that communist regime have and are continuing to do these inhumane crimes.
Put some of amazing energy you have to good use. The facts are out there we just have to get them from within China . Would like to join the Coalition to Investigate the Persecution of Falun Gong (CIPFG)? I can direct you to the CIPFG if you wish to help. You don’t have to go to China there are many ways to help this investigation. Of course going to China would be most helpful..
If the evidence is so compelling, why doesn’t Epoch turn over the evidence and witnesses for protection and verification by our government? US government is the most powerful government in the world.
With the accusations on public record, the will be more impetus.
To keep crying about genocide without verifiable evidence or solid proof only proves Falun Gong’s political agendea, or an anti-communist agenda hidden in looney religious belief.
Look at Master Li’s right hand man, Zhang Erping. He’s all political now, with his “a world without communism” charge from Freedom House.
Who pays for Freedom House is not huge secret.
I used to give Falun Gong a free pass when I see them flogging eachother in Chinatown. But the latest stunt Epoch Times NY pulled with “Auschwitz/Never Again” is just too much.
Thats what the International Coalition to Investigate the Persecution (CIPFG) is all about.
Some Governments including some members of the USA Government cannot afford to upset the CCP. This is sad and tragic reality of life. This also happened in WW11 with the Jewish Holocaust , many Governments did not act immediately to stop or save further life until it was too late. Thats why the term ‘NEVER AGAIN’ was coined and yet here I is happening again
Yet the evidence will be verified by CIPFG which is made up of International VIP Politicians including 81 USA congressmen, 7 Canadian MPs and 1 Human Rights lawyer, 11 members of the European Council, 1 Australian MP and many more doctors surgeons etc , the list grows each day as the evidence has mounted up in many other areas as more people are made aware of this then more people are coming forward to acknowledge that the figures and facts of organ transplants happening in China do not add up without having a huge organ pool .
You cannot match a heart donor within 30 minutes. Yet this is what a Chinese surgeons are boasting of in China now.
The China Post reported this story themselves and even readers wrote to the Editor asking how this could be done if there wasn’t some foul play involved.
You need to screen 100 donors at the very least to find a match for the recipient.
That means in order to find a heart in 30 minutes or a liver in 2 weeks, a kidney in 1 week, you must have a very large pool of donors on hand. They have boasted that they do 20,000 transplants each year they would need to have screened 2 million people and have them on hand to match all those recipients.
It is illegal to and not good medically to take organs from deceased people. The success rate is not too good.
This means that they have a large donor pool with all the donors already screened and ready to donate within a short time.
This can only happen if you have a large amount of people incarcerated people.
They call it reverse matching. No other country can do it in the world.
There were 100 million Falun Gong Practitioners practising in China before the persecution started Bobby.
And just so you know the Chinese people do not give their organs freely because it is well against their culture and religions.
Speak to you soon Bobby
Jana, you probably learn the “die whole” thing from the movie “The Last Emperor”, didn’t you?
What you ignore is the fact the condemned in China also seek redemption and last contribution to family and society, under the same cultural and religious foundation.
Under their sensitivity not only is this issue debatable, the Chinese are debating it. I hope you’ll give my blog based on the British Transplant Society’s article a pass. IMHO it’s a more sane and rational discussion of China’s problem.
And don’t think your propaganda on the political endorsement is getting by without critical examination. The politicias you listed voiced support, not participation.
And we all know how few years ago FLG went around to pitch the “exercise only, non-political” schmooze to get “Falun Dafa Day” proclomation, then Epoch would turn around and say that’s endorsement for FLG’s political cause.
The canadian guy is an ex-MP, eg. not a MP.
I wouldn’t place so much faith on pretend-NGO FLG groups. Some of their data is suspect. For example one of the press claimed 7 year wait for organ in US.
When I looked into it, the claim is simply false. Here’re 1995-2004 clinical data from ustransplant.org:
http://www.ustransplant.org/annual_reports/current/105_dh.htm
– USA with 1/4 of China’s population, performs over twice as many liver transplants yearly (10,000 in 2004.)
– 2004 data shows top 10% of wait list average 10 day wait
– 2004 data shows top 25% of wait list average 43 day wait
– Majority of median wait time, for all type of transplantation, do not exceed one year.
Do you know the Chinese do not rely on close tissue type match, but powerful immunosuppressant drug to do the transplant?
What if I tell you there are US transplant center that boasts 2 1/2 month wait for a heart? Are they too running concentration camp?
Sorry Bobby I dont believe your data.
CAn we please wait until the CIPFG and Manfred Novak’s investigations prove other wise.
Let’s see if you have any reasons to not believe the links provided, or it’s simply because they speak against your political agenda?
– University Renal Research and Education Association is operated by University of Michigan;
– Here’s the link for the SC transplant center that boasts 2.5 month wait:
http://www.lifepoint-sc.org/articles/theheartofthematter.html
“At MUSC, heart transplant patients on average wait about 2 1/2 months for a heart, Van Bakel said. Nationally, he said, the average wait time is about eight months.”
They are facts found on google, feel free to verify them youself. I wish I can do the same with your claims.
Dear Bobby,
These sites have now been deleted from the web because of their boastful content of their availability of finding donors exposing them. Yet you can go to the archived links provided to find the orignal web content.
Please note the incriminating evidence that clearly shows that the policy and implementation of such barbaric procedures is accepted and supported by the CCP . Please note the tell tale sentence below saying that they do not use brain dead donors as the success of the operations are not very successful
Information from the Website of the China International Transplantation Network Assistance Center (CITNAC)
The China International Transplantation Network Assistance Center (CITNAC) can be found on Hui-Gong Street, Shenhe District, Shenyang City, the same city where the Sujiatun concentration camp was located.
The official English web page of CITNAC is http://en.zoukiishoku.com/. This website was designed to attract foreigners for organ transplant surgery, and was on-line until mid April, 2006. After information from this website was widely referenced by Falun Gong practitioners as proof of organ harvesting in China, this site was deleted from the internet around April 23, 2006. Yet, one can still go to the internet archives to find most of the information on this website from 2005. The URL of this site in the internet archives is http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://en.zoukiishoku.com/
Bobby you will need to go into the archives here to see the graphs
The website states, “There are more than 35,000 kidney transplant operations that have been done in public hospitals in 29 cities, provinces and municipalities in China, and the number of kidney transplant operations is at least 5,000 every year all over the country.”
“So many transplantation operations are owing to the support of the Chinese government. The Supreme Demotic Court, Supreme Demotic Law-officer, Police, Judiciary, Department of Health and Civil Administration have enacted a law together to make sure that organ donations are supported by the government, This is unique in the world.â€
The FAQ page of the CITNAC website states: “It may take only one week to find out the suitable donor, the maximum time being one month because the kidney transplant needs to find a HLA tissue match.â€
“Our organs do not come from brain death victims because the state of the organ may not be good.â€
In comparison, the median wait time for a matching kidney in the U.S. is 2 years, according to
http://www.transweb.org/qa/asktw/answers/answers9701/96042008.html
It’s common knowledge among medical professionals that the probability of finding a matching kidney from a donor who is not a relative is 6% or less. In addition, according to Dr. Thomas Diflo from the NYU Medical Center, the preservation time for kidney transplantation is 24 ~ 48 hours.
CITNAC’s claims for such a large number of transplant operations with such a short waiting time can only be explained by the existence of a huge live organ reserve bank.
Information from the Website of OOTC
The Oriental Organ Transplantation Center(OOTC) is located in Tianjin city. The following two graphs were used to be on the front pages of its website, http://www.ootc.net/, until mid April, 2006.
After these two graphs were widely referred by Falun Gong practitioners as proof of organ harvesting, they were deleted from the site between mid and late April, 2006. Yet, one can still go to the internet archive to find them. The URL of the OOTC’s website as of March 2005 in the internet archive is http://web.archive.org/web/20050303002337/http://www.ootc.net/
Bobby you will need to visit the archived sites for the graphs as they won ‘t post into the Blog here.
The words in the background say “Our Achievementsâ€. Please note that the number of transplantations that were carried out in OOTC starts to increase in the year 1999, the same year when the persecution of Falun Gong started.
The words in the background say “Currently, we have completed 2248 cases of liver transplantation (as of 2005)†“The survival rate for the following one year has reached 97%â€
PLease check these sites out.
kindest regards Jana
Jana, you are ignoring some very basic fact:
– none of the link proves Sujiatun concentration camp where FLGer were subjected to vivisection and organs harvested. This is very poor evidence requiring very irrational logic jump.
– Two US government investigation have found Epoch Times “Auschwitz” calim, where Dr. Wang Wenyi (a pathologist) is the lead researcher, not credible
– The hospital Epoch accused is a joint venture with a company associated with the Malaysian government. The facility has been open to public for years, and Malay officials have visted it in previous years.
– The Chinese do not rely on close tissue type match to perform transplantation, rather powerful immunosupressant drugs are used to prevent rejection.
This link you provided is broken:
http://www.transweb.org/qa/asktw/answers/answers9701/96042008.html
Even if your link worked, you would’ve porved WOIPFG’s “7 year wait” claim to be false.
Jana, your ignorance really shines with that zoukiishoku citation.
What the page is talking about is how organ donation by the condemned requires multiple legal safeguards and oversights.
For example a death row inmate applys for organ donation, before a drop of blood can be taken, the warden, the court, health ministry, etc. has to participate in the process that evaluates and approves the application.
Here’s an example of a guy turned himself in for killing his wife’s lover, applied for organ donation, thru his lawyer:
http://news.sina.com.cn/s/p/2006-03-20/12299394605.shtml
Before he was to pay with his life, he decided to donate his organ as last act of redemption, and willed the organ donation compensation fund paid by the state to the victim’s family. In his interview he indicated the reason he called for press is to help bring awareness to organ donation in China.
Like I said, the Chinese government’s incentive program to encourage organ donation is not directed at the prison population. You may find fault in it, but who are you to judge their reality with our western sensitivity?
Good lord Jana. The more you talk, the more holes show up in Falun Gong’s swiss-cheese accusation.
The “brain dead vicitm” bit you brought up by no means prove vivisection. The opposit is true. What the translated page is refering to is comparing to Japanese transplant using organ from people in prolonged vegitative state, China does not.
This is not taling about live organ harveting at all.
Read the Chinese version and compare it with the English version to understand the CONTEXT:
Yet another example of how FLG twist things to fit their exaggeration and political agenda.
China’s human rights record is far from prestine, but how can anyone expect the Chinese take this kind of nefarious indictment seriousely?
Dear Bobby,
Any person with moderate level of intelligence knows that the CCP whitewashed all the evidence as they do continually . Here is the report from the USA visit please kindly note all the main references to the USA remaining very concerned about the persecution of Falun Gong.
You are not the spokeperson for the Jewish race yet you discredit and bring shame upon yourself.
There are thousands of Jewish people who have signed and offer their support to help stop another tradgedy of this magnitude from happening again.
U.S. Finds No Evidence of Alleged Concentration Camp in China
Repression of Falun Gong, reports of organ harvesting still worry officials
U.S. representatives have found no evidence to support allegations that a site in northeast China has been used as a concentration camp to jail Falun Gong practitioners and harvest their organs, according to the U.S. Department of State.
Officers and staff from the U.S. embassy in Beijing and the U.S. consulate in Shenyang have visited the area and the specific site on two separate occasions, the State Department said in a written response to a question taken at the April 14 daily press briefing.
“In these visits the officers were allowed to tour the entire facility and grounds and found no evidence that the site is being used for any function other than as a normal public hospital,” the response said.
Independent of these specific allegations, the United States remains concerned over China’s repression of Falun Gong practitioners and by reports of organ harvesting, the State Department said. The United States has raised both issues in its discussions with the Chinese government and in its annual report on human rights practices around the world. (See related article.)
According to the State Department’s International Religious Freedom Report for 2005, Falun Gong blends aspects of Taoism, Buddhism and the meditation techniques and physical exercises of qigong — a traditional Chinese exercise discipline — with the teachings of Falun Gong leader Li Hongzhi. Despite the spiritual content of some of Li’s teachings, Falun Gong does not consider itself a religion and has no clergy or places of worship.
For more information on U.S. policies, see The United States and China.
The China section of the State Department’s 2005 Country Reports on Human Rights Practices and the China section of the State Department’s International Religious Freedom Report for 2005 are available on the State Department Web site.
Following is the State Department response to the taken question:
(begin text)
U.S. DEPARTMENT OF STATE
Office of the Spokesman
April 14, 2006
Taken Question from 04-14-06 Daily Press Briefing
China: Reports of Concentration Camp in Northeast China
Question: What information can you provide regarding a reported concentration camp in China where Falun Gong practitioners were jailed and their organs harvested?
Answer: We are aware of the allegations and have taken these charges seriously. The Department and our Embassy in Beijing, as well as our Consulate General in Shenyang, have actively sought to determine the facts of the matter. Officers and staff from our Embassy in Beijing and Consulate in Shenyang have visited the area and the specific site mentioned in these reports on two separate occasions. In these visits the officers were allowed to tour the entire facility and grounds and found no evidence that the site is being used for any function other than as a normal public hospital.
We have raised these reports with the Chinese government and urged it to investigate these allegations. China’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs spokesperson has publicly denied there is any basis for the allegations.
Independent of these specific allegations, we remain concerned over China’s repression of Falun Gong practitioners. We are also concerned by reports of organ harvesting. We have raised these concerns both in our annual Human Rights Report and in discussions with the Chinese government, both in Washington and in Beijing.
(end text)
(Distributed by the Bureau of International Information Programs, U.S. Department of State. Web site: http://usinfo.state.gov)
Dear Bobby,
Please understand Falun Gong is not a political group.
Being Political means that you want to be a politician or you are actively trying to over throw the Government so as to take over in their place.
Falun Gong does not do this. There enough groups and discontentment with the CCP regime out there already doing that and very successfully I might add. Successfully because the Chinese communist regime is an easy target with its policies of repression incarceration and persecution and murder of millions of its own people that still happens to this day.
Falun Gong are not interested in running the country. WE ARE ONLY INTERESTED IN STOPPING THE SENSELESS MURDER OF FALUN GONG PRACTITIONERS IN CHINA.
We have for the last nearly 7 years been peacefully and non violently exposing these atrocities in order to save human life. This is not Politics Bobby get your terminology right at least.
What happened in the Jewish Holocaust was a tragedy that will leave its legacy forever stained on humanity.
Human nature being what it is generally replays the same story over and over again until we get it right. This is an evolution of the soul you could say.
A persecution of the most inhumane magnitude is happening right now Bobby with Falun Gong in China, This cannot be denied by you or anyone else.
WE really don’t want to trump “YOUR†Holocaust and I say your because like I said previously in another blog to you there are many many Jewish people who also wish and help support this current tragedy to stop. They are not possessive of the Holocaust they understand that to save all human life is of the most importance for humanity’s soul. Bobby we wish with all our hearts that that this would end and in fact we wish this had never begun.
Nothing you can say to me or many other millions of people will make them believe that this is not going on and that the disappearance of MILLIONS of Falun Gong practitioners are not linked to the organ harvesting massacre while the sale of Human organs has escalated beyond any normal perimeters of donor availability. Please don’t forget this is but one tragedy amongst many in the persecution of Falun Gong by the vile communist regime.
Jana, read the part that said “Independent of these specific allegations, we remain concerned over China’s repression of Falun Gong practitioners.”
What does that mean? FLG’s “Auschwitz” claim is bunk. I’m not interested in convincing you of anything, just here to raise these inconvienent little facts about FLG’s propaganda.
Oh please, Zhang Erping is running around with his “World without communism” stuff. I really wonder if he still practice FLG.
And get your history correct. One of FLG’s demands that ticked off the Chinese government was official religious recognition (which comes with political appointment.)
[I have a blog on this, incidentally.]
It’s politics, don’t try to pretend otherwise. Your bit about about “don’t want to run the country, only overthrow CCP” ain’t fooling nobody.
Did you ever think about what will happen to a billion people if they ever get to the kind of statelessness we put Iraq in?
What happens after conumation?
The Taiwanese reclaim Mainland and ROC is back in power? Be serious (Unless The ROC government is paying you guys to fight the Independence War in US public opinion realm with these fairy tales…)
I have no proof, but it’s not beyond belief… Sounds familiar?
Dear Bobby ,
You are forgetting one thing I am a Falun Gong practitioner and I practise Truth Compassion and Tolerance.
Do you understand what that means to me?
Probably not but one day you will.
I rest my case with you Bobby as you will not see just even common sense. It does not matter what is said to you, you will latch onto one statement and take it as the whole truth and nothing but the truth . This is not good for you or humanity, and when the proof is there for all to see will you still be making excuses for who and what??
I am signing off this blog not because you have convinced me or anyone else of anything but because you are a lost cause and I have no wish to waste any more precious time in listening to delusions, lies and bad karma. I think that the best thing I can do is leave you alone to your devices.
I do wish you well though Bobby. Goodbye.