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Lisa Ling Writes to Kushibo

Lisa Ling has written to Kushibo, responding to his criticisms. Kushibo, obviously wanting to choose his next words carefully, will respond in the coming days.

For the record, I think Kushibo’s fury is motivated by the best of intentions, but I respectfully differ with him on this point. I criticize Lisa Ling for absolutely nothing. Laura Ling, in the course of trying to tell an important story, also with the best of intentions, made a foolish decision to cross into North Korea that might have gotten other people hurt or killed — we’ll probably never know for sure. Without knowing that, it’s difficult to answer the question of what Laura and Euna Lee can do to redeem themselves. That leaves me feeling deeply ambivalent about both of them.

Lisa Ling has taken much more justifiable risks to tell another important story about North Korea, and she and her husband Paul Song have long supported LiNK and the cause of ending Kim Jong Il’s brutality toward his subjects. Some have suggested that Lisa Ling’s “Inside North Korea” may have set back access for other humanitarian groups to get into North Korea, but the evidence doesn’t support this view. This regime has long manipulated humanitarian aid, has never allowed in much of it, and has recently rejected most offers of humanitarian aid to the extent of mass expulsions of American aid groups and canceling a 500,000-ton aid commitment from the U.S. government. Far better, then, for some intrepid journalist to help Americans understand the terrible nature of this regime so that they can know the futility of their own generosity. “Inside North Korea” was intrepid and, for many viewers, profoundly enlightening.

Some of the criticism of Lisa Ling, not necessarily Kushibo’s, has implicitly criticized her for using her fame to gain publicity. This strikes me as more envy than principled criticism. For one thing, the publicity itself brought needed attention to this regime’s brutality. For another, there is no inherent evil in being famous or, to drive to the real emotional focus here, beautiful. In saying this, I certainly don’t refer to Kushibo, but I don’t doubt that fame and beauty are objects of resentment for some. But this is irrational, and if I were fortunate enough to be famous and drop-dead gorgeous with a loved one in distress, I’d sure as hell go on CNN to appeal for her release. It would be different if Lisa Ling had counseled her sister to cross the border, but I’ve seen no evidence to support that. Lisa Ling and Laura Ling are different people. Isn’t it at least fair to judge each by her own actions?

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  2. One wonders whether comments are closed less out of respect than because Kushibo knows he may have been rather hasty in his critique this time.

    Moving the focus a bit, though; is it not fair to say that those whose behavior is of the most abjectly stupid and dangerous nature with regards to the safety of others have precious little right to any more publicity? Yes, handing the proceeds from the entire book, every last cent, to LiNK may well assuage some of the damage, and with a little luck will make a difference in some North Korean lives in the future which may reset the karmic balance still further, but the main thrust of our outcry should remain; would you please stop doing stuff like that?

  3. Josh:

    I’m gonna take issue with something you wrote. Lisa is attractive.. but “drop dead gorgeous”? I think not. Incredible beauty and brains is not strictly required to become famous a la “Oprah”. Maybe, as she puts it, she’s good at telling stories that people want to hear. I think she’s unfortunately naive if she thinks her actions actually helped improve NK and U.S. relations in some meaningful way that will help North Koreans directly (it’s pretty clear that the NK regime simply methodically tries to game the system and has no real interest in close relations with the U.S.–which would in fact undermine the regime’s reason for being).

    However, I do think we need to step back when evaluating her and her sister’s “contributions”. It’s true that there may be a few refugees’ lives at stake and some may have even died because of Laura and Euna–which is tragic. In the larger picture, though, I think it’s clear that Laura’s and Euna’s adventure has brought more positive interest in North Korea.

    If the main problem is that nobody cares, maybe even the Stupogants and Robert Park have done North Koreans a service. I understand the counterargument that they may have undermined the U.S. economic stranglehold on the palace economy. However, at this point, we don’t really know what will topple the regime. The economic stranglehold could do it. Or international sentiment could force China to take action. Or KJI could simply die. Or some combination of events we can’t even imagine now could take shape (it will be very sad if KJI dies a peaceful death).

    I just don’t think it’s as simple as some folks (including posts I have read on this site) make it out to be. Generally speaking, I think putting an international spotlight on the mass murder in North Korea is the most important thing, from which ideally will come economic sanctions and political action. From this perspective, I do think the last couple of years have been a productive time. So I’m not ready to say “would you please stop doing stuff like that”. I’m more disturbed by people who do nothing.

    Those are my two cents.

  4. chris wrote:

    One wonders whether comments are closed less out of respect than because Kushibo knows he may have been rather hasty in his critique this time.

    It’s mostly the former and, honestly, has nothing to do with the latter. People have been siding for or against what I’ve said, on my blog, here, and elsewhere, and they will do so even with comments closed (one of my posts from yesterday has already become a proxy for the no-comments post, through no encouragement of my own). I’m able to handle the criticism and I’m also willing to temper or alter my views when they may be wrong, the facts have changed, or I’ve been rather hasty.

    Because of the seriousness and sensitivity of the topic, and especially because Ms Ling took the personal risk of putting herself out there like that, I want to handle this as neatly and respectfully as possible. Her letter is there, I will respond, and she will “rebut” if she likes. Maybe after that, I might allow comments to be open, but in the meantime I’ll try not to respond to the thoughtful comments here and in the “proxy post.”

  5. “Some of the criticism of Lisa Ling, not necessarily Kushibo’s, has implicitly criticized her for using her fame to gain publicity”.

    I don’t understand this mindset, I really don’t.

    No such thing as bad publicity when it comes to exposing an evil regime.

    Bono, singer of the band U2, said it best when he was hitting up some government higher ups for funds for Africa (I think it was Africa). He said something like “I am a rock star and am the last person you should be hearing this from. But that’s how our media works.”

  6. All these folks like Lee, Ling, (mono) Bono, all share vanity.

    [OFK: I’m not approving the rest of this. It’s crude and profane. If you want to try to make your point intelligently, by all means try again.]

  7. Just left a lofty comment on this topic, I hope it hasn’t hit the spam bin, but would appreciate a check. Feel free to remove this comment afterwards.

  8. I adhere to my opinion, hoping that Lisa’s husband, who reads this blog, will take no offense. She’s drop dead gorgeous. Beauty is obviously more than just appearance. It’s also grace, poise, and intelligence. Lisa has all of those things.

  9. Hi there,

    Saw Lisa Ling’s letter to Kushibo and though she has every right to write what she pleases, I just thought I would give you a bit of context from Spelunker so that you have it.

    First of all I am glad to hear that Lisa Ling, co-censor of Somewhere Inside, is donating her entire portion of book sales to LiNK, CPJ and RSF. I wonder where she got that idea.

    Lisa writes: While my sister (Laura) and her team (Euna Lee and Mitch Koss) made a mistake by setting foot onto NK soil, they were used as political bargaining tools by the North Korea government. Political bargaining tools? And what concessions was Pyongyang able to squeeze out with this pair of pliers? Name one.

    Lisa writes: Since their return and President Clinton’s visit, there have been a lot of positive movements. The North Koreans released the Hyundai worker as well as the South Korean fishermen they had been holding not to mention Robert Park after 2 months of detention. Everybody gets released sooner or later, unless they are in North Korea’s concentration camps. Hey Lisa! (and Paul!!): Probably better not to mention Robert Park at all, until after you and Elisabeth Hasselbeck interrogate him on “The View”.

    Lisa writes: North Korea also allowed Steven Bosworth into the country and a top level NK diplomat is scheduled to visit the U.S. next month to discuss nuclear disarmament. I seem to recall Lisa saying that her sister’s release would have nothing to do with politics; that it was a separate “human rights” issue within the context of US-DPRK relations. Laura doesn’t deserve even partial credit for these developments. I’m willing to bet a large order of fries that Bill Clinton agrees with me.

    Lisa writes: How you can say that we have blood on our hands is so upsetting. Talk to the people at LiNK and ask them if they have noticed an improvement in the tone coming out of North Korea since my sister and Euna’s return.
    The tone coming out of North Korea? I left this question on LiNK’s Webcast, but defer to Joshua for more measured analysis of the “tone” and and any blood evidence.

    Lisa writes: I am deeply proud of my sister and believe that her story will provoke people to think differently about what can happen when human beings get the opportunity to interact with one another despite that fact that their countries may consider each another enemies. I wonder if her story provoked Robert Park and any other American knucklehead who is still considering crossing the Tumen.

    Thank you Joshua for allowing my voice. You are a very passionate person and I admire that. Know that Spelunker’s comments have never been about self-aggrandizement. I have been lucky that God bestowed a path for me that I take very seriously, and that is for telling it like it is about China and North Korea. I realize that there will be many who will be unhappy with some of the things I say, but I feel compelled to type them nonetheless.

    Be well,
    Spelunker

  10. Biff has a great point. By all accounts, things do seem like they are softening a bit and most importantly, I agree, what the Ling sisters have done is better than doing nothing which most people seem to do. People like to criticize but they don’t walk the walk. I have seen a lot of both Lisa and Laura Ling’s work and I admire that they try and open the world up for people who may otherwise know nothing about an issue. I took my daughter to see Lisa speak last year, and she was riveted and moved like the rest of the audience. I can’t even get my daughter to talk to me for more than 10 minutes. And Lisa talked about some serious stuff. I can’t say the same for most people. Do I think she’s drop dead gorgeous? I think she’s pretty.

  11. She’s drop dead gorgeous. Beauty is obviously more than just appearance. It’s also grace, poise, and intelligence. Lisa has all of those things.

    Grace, poise, and intelligence do factor into overall attractiveness, but to me, “drop-dead gorgeous” describes physical beauty only. A younger Jude Law was drop-dead gorgeous in spite of being a jerk. Madonna’s Baby Jesus Luz is drop-my-drawers gorgeous. The young man that walked into the office yesterday afternoon was drop-my-drawers gorgeous. Sadly, my no-sex-in-sexagenarian colleague told me she was too old to notice hotties.

  13. I intend to by the Ling sisters’ book. I hope Kushibo, Sonagi, Spelunker, and Joshua will all read it, even if they can’t bring themselves to buy it. I’ve learned a lot from their comments, and I’d like their informed opinions on the book.

    I’m glad to know that Lisa will give some of my money to a good cause.

    Speaking only for myself, the one thing that caused me to learn the most about North Korea was the arrest of Laura Ling and Euna Lee. I had never heard of them or of Mitch Koss. I had never even heard of Lisa Ling until she started campaigning for the release of “the girls” in June. Only after that I did I discover freekorea and ROKdrop.

    I think both Lisa and Laura are gorgeous. I’ll request their autographs if their book tour brings them near my hometown. Euna is gorgeous, too. I love them all, even though I’ve never met them. I also love their husbands and Euna’s daughter. Good luck to all of them!

    Laura, the vice president, made a bad mistake, but that doesn’t make her stupid or arrogant. Mitch, the executive producer, should have known better, too. But poor Euna! Until then she had been an editor. This was her first producing/reporting assignment. She was there as a trainee, and she went along with her experienced colleagues. That was a mistake, but it wasn’t stupogant.

  14. Am I on permanent comment moderation?

    I am having trouble, too Joshua. I can see my posts at work, but not at home. They show up instantly at the office, and on a 24 hours (or longer) delay at home. Not sure why, other than my internet provider is Korea Telecom…

  15. Well, I don’t think my comment was profane at all, but as I am commenting on your blog I will of course accept any suggestions.

    Without trying to hard, I am making the case that people like Eugene Lee, Laura Ling, Bono, Geldoff, Al Gore really don’t care about the causes we know them for advocating.

    Their so called dedication to their virtious causes is simply driven by their own vanity, by their own self importance, rather then them actually caring for the North Korean people.

    I am also convinced that Bono doesn’t give a hood about Africa either. He just woffles on because he gets to sell records and he meets ‘important’ people, which in turn will make him feel important.

    It’s all vanity, people. Let me not forget Robert Park, but I have alread said enough about him, so I’ll let him deJuchefy in peace, for the time being.

    Alejandrao Cao is of exact similar material like the abovementioned characters, however we revulse him, because he stands for something we hate. But as I have argued before, Cao is a business man and con artist rather than a deluded fool, and only found a niche because he wants to be important. Vanity again.

    Is this any better OFK ? Kudos to your blog.

  16. With respect, I feel that your oversimplification does a great disservice to the complexity of the human person, Ernst. People are simply not that black-and-white. It’s entirely possible to be motivated by both genuine concern for others and, to some extent, egoism: we are all a rich tapestry, and I’m afraid that not a single one of us is perfect. I feel that the people you mention, and particularly the Ling sisters, have a very genuine concern for the people of the DPRK. This genuine concern and desire for professional or personal recognition would not be mutually exclusive, and it certainly doesn’t exclude one from making mistakes, no matter how grave.
    There’s been scarcely a person in all of human history who has not been, in some part, motivated — or at least influenced — by their desire for recognition. While it’s not ideal, it is perfectly natural and it doesn’t mean you don’t care about other people.

  17. I disagree completely, and frankly, the comparison between Lisa Ling and Cao de Benos is ludicrous and offensive. Cao is an inadequate man full of hate, hate for himself above all. Men like Cao crave power as a vehicle for their self-loathing nihilism. Look at him in his Mao suit — he’s reborn from his schoolyard days, no longer the outcast the other boys called “cochinito,” but someone who wears the trappings of tyrannical power over others … third-rate journalists and other schoolyard outcasts, mostly.

    Lisa Ling certainly isn’t any of those things. Her activism gains her nothing personally, and isn’t a cause that fits Hollywood’s agenda or preconceptions. Now, if she were in this for herself, she’d make like Naomi Campbell and stand beside Hugo Chavez on the reviewing stand. On the contrary, she and Paul Song have supported this cause for years.

    Furthermore, without having read the book, I cannot say what effect it will have, but I’d suggest that it has the potential to reach and motivate a demographic that doesn’t care about foreign policy and may not know how cruel a place North Korea is. This book could do good. It all depends on what the book says, which you and I don’t know. Again, I don’t know the extent of the damage Laura and Euna did by crossing the border, but this book could in some way offset some of that harm. And I don’t believe that people should be denied the chance to redeem themselves after they’ve apologized for what they’ve done wrong.

  19. This is a really interesting discussion. I told my daughter about this little debate we’re all having and she said that she is really excited to buy the Ling book–I’ve never heard her say that about any book. Lisa really made an impact on her when she spoke. As a father I am disgusted with the people whom kids look up to. I have to be honest, I had known nothing of North Korea before Lisa’s Nat Geo documentary. And now since Laura and Euna’s situation, I too have become a follower of this blog and others and have joined LiNK. Who knows, maybe this will raise a new level of awareness?

  20. Glans wrote:

    “Speaking only for myself, the one thing that caused me to learn the most about North Korea was the arrest of Laura Ling and Euna Lee. I had never heard of them or of Mitch Koss. I had never even heard of Lisa Ling until she started campaigning for the release of “the girls” in June. Only after that I did I discover freekorea and ROKdrop.”

    Amen. That’s right. And now you are here. Thank you for joining us. This is what I am talking about- BRINGING AWARENESS. Then awareness to ACTION.
    ————————————————
    Ernst wrote:

    “Without trying to hard, I am making the case that people like Eugene Lee, Laura Ling, Bono, Geldoff, Al Gore really don’t care about the causes we know them for advocating.

    Their so called dedication to their virtious causes is simply driven by their own vanity, by their own self importance..”

    Ernst- I don’t even know what to say to this. Have you ever met any of these people personally? Are they automatically vain because they are famous? How would you feel if someone assumed these judgements on you?

  23. Theresa wrote : Are they automatically vain because they are famous?

    Yes. Goes hand in hand really.

    People’s own needs always come first and how they fill these in then follows – to varying degrees.

    I am not comparing these aforementioned folks to ‘ordinary young man’ who join the clergy so that they can molest kids, but …..they are simply another variety. Think about it.

    People are suprisingly selfish, you know.

  24. Without trying to hard, I am making the case that people like Eugene Lee, Laura Ling, Bono, Geldoff, Al Gore really don’t care about the causes we know them for advocating.

    You’ve lumped together a diverse group of people. I’m pretty sure you’re not a mind reader, but you and I and others can infer motives from actions. Al Gore’s large carbon footprint belies his advocacy of environmental causes. I don’t know and don’t care about Bono and Geldoff. What have Euna Lee and Laura Ling said or done from which we can infer that they don’t really care about North Korea?

  26. Well, good to see we agree Sonagi.

    And with regards to the ulterior motives of Euna Lee and Lisa Ling, I’ll put it to you that these women are probably extremely subtle in their manipulation, in as much that their care for NK has its foundations in either : a) making up for extreme self loathing which these women will never share with anyone or b) grand self delusion by these women who care about NK in name only, but then spend their weekends shopping in Lotte or Maceys for that matter, and make sure they got everything ‘a modern girl’ deserves. A and B are mutually exclusive by the way..

    And as for Bono, Al Bore and Geldoff, let’s not even go there, because they’re very easy pickings, but just wanted to highlight these creeps as examples.

  27. You didn’t answer my question. You didn’t cite a single example of anything Ling and Lee said or did to explain why you think they don’t really care about North Korea.

  28. Ernst – even if all the celebrities we have been talking about are bringing attention to a cause out of vanity- what does it matter what their motives are? They are using their fame for good.

    It reminds me of these verses in the bible. The apostle Paul wrote:

    “It is true that some preach Christ out of envy and rivalry, but others out of goodwill. The latter do so in love, knowing that I am put here for the defense of the gospel. The former preach Christ out of selfish ambition, not sincerely, supposing that they can stir up trouble for me while I am in chains. But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of this I rejoice.”

    Philippians 1:15-18

    So I say this:

    “But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from motives of vanity or sincerity, awareness is being raised and action is being sought regarding aiding those in desperate need.”

  29. Grace, poise, and intelligence do factor into overall attractiveness, but to me, “drop-dead gorgeous” describes physical beauty only. A younger Jude Law was drop-dead gorgeous in spite of being a jerk. Madonna’s Baby Jesus Luz is drop-my-drawers gorgeous. The young man that walked into the office yesterday afternoon was drop-my-drawers gorgeous. Sadly, my no-sex-in-sexagenarian colleague told me she was too old to notice hotties.

    Wait, Sonagi, are you female? Crazy. I thought message boards were just for us pathetic boys. Agree with the general statement above. Kim Yuna’s pretty darn hot, but I wouldn’t have even have noticed her in street clothes walking around kangnam a year ago. Now, I feel sad that NK can’t share in her triumph. When I read this headline “연아의 눈물 5천만 적시다” I couldn’t help thinking it should have been 7…

  30. biff, I wonder if the DPRK regime might not decide to highlight Kim Yuna’s accomplishments — promoting them as a sign of the world acknowledging the excellence of the Korean minjok, particularly as she vanquishes two Japanese opponents and a few imperialists.

    Of course, this would involve divesting the story of its coach who’s Canadian and gay, the overseas facilities she later trained in, etc., etc.

  32. Glans wrote:

    Speaking only for myself, the one thing that caused me to learn the most about North Korea was the arrest of Laura Ling and Euna Lee. I had never heard of them or of Mitch Koss. I had never even heard of Lisa Ling until she started campaigning for the release of “the girls” in June. Only after that I did I discover freekorea and ROKdrop.

    Don’t take this the wrong way, but what you’re saying reminds me a bit of the commenter at The Marmot’s Hole who said, despite living in Seoul at the time, he hadn’t heard of Namdaemun until it burned down. 😉

  33. Again I learn something from a Kushibo comment. I’ve never heard of Namdaemun, so I looked it up in Wikipedia, and found that it’s considered the first among the national treasures of South Korea, but that people are increasingly calling it by its official name, Sungnyemun.

  34. If it were not for Lisa Ling, none of us would have known the extent of devotion the people of the DPRK have/are required to show to their dear leader for everything involving their health and livelihoods. No matter how tattered and terrible the state of that livelihood is . Her National Georaphic special was one of the most poignant informative pieces of work ever done inside the country.

  36. Like Joshua and others have commented, I to cannot find any fault with Lisa Ling with the actions she took after her sister and Euna were detained by North Korea. I also admire the work she has done as a journalist on projects such as the Inside North Korea documentary on National Geographic that has greatly raised awareness about issues going on inside North Korea other than the nuclear issue.

    However, I like others here do disagree with her statement that the detainment of Laura and Euna led to improved relations between the US and the DPRK. I have seen this play out too many times; North Korea misbehaves the US makes overtures and eventually an agreement is worked out. North Korea behaves for awhile and the diplomats slap each other on the back and as Joshua would put it peace in our time is declared. Than NK eventually cheats on the agreement, gets caught, blames the US, NK apologists in the US also blame the US government, and the cycle starts all over again.

    The detainment of Laura and Euna was just an excuse to move forward in the cycle process to the US makes overtures stage.

  37. GI Korea wrote:

    I also admire the work she has done as a journalist on projects such as the Inside North Korea documentary on National Geographic that has greatly raised awareness about issues going on inside North Korea other than the nuclear issue.

    I have not seen the documentary, but I don’t feel admiration for a journalist who would go undercover in North Korea posing as part of a medical team in order to get their story.

    The foreseeable and expected results of using a medical team for cover would be at the very least heightened scrutiny for foreign medical teams in the future, if not outright banning of some or all out of fear that their may be other such undercover journalists, which would in turn impact the health of other innocent North Koreans.

    Again, it’s putting getting the story ahead of the lives of innocent people, though in no way as badly as what her sister, Mitch Koss, and Euna Lee did. That may or may not be something I’ll address. I had planned to do this yesterday, but the tsunami watch and some other stuff got in the way.

  38. Kushibo,
    If only it were that easy to report stories inside totalitarian countries. Forgive me, but you seem really naive. The Ling sisters have raised more awareness and money for their respective cause or issues than I bet you have in a lifetime. And how are you so sure that innocent people were adversely affected? Do you have evidence? You call yourself a journalist, back up your facts.

  39. Yes, I agree that Lisa Ling’s documentary has brought a side of North Korea to the attention of many who only knew it for it’s nuclear ambitions. How can one forget the chilling reactions of the North Korean patients after they had their sight returned by Dr. Ruit?

  40. pkim wrote:

    If only it were that easy to report stories inside totalitarian countries. Forgive me, but you seem really naive.

    Sorry, pkim, but “it’s hard to do it without endangering anybody” isn’t an excuse for endangering anybody.

    The Ling sisters have raised more awareness and money for their respective cause or issues than I bet you have in a lifetime.

    You’re right. I’m not on Oprah. If I’m lucky, my blog will 500 hits a day and only a third will be looking for nude photos of Kim Yuna. So you’re right, maybe I’m not worthy to speak. But none of what I’ve done has gotten anybody tortured or killed, so there’s that.

    And how are you so sure that innocent people were adversely affected? Do you have evidence? You call yourself a journalist, back up your facts.

    I submit OFK as evidence, your honor. That and my gut: For some real prescience on this, go take a look at what I wrote in the days after their arrest and see how much of what I wrote turned out to be right, from their non-accidental accident to them praising their guards to concessions by the US government. To a large extent I’ve been going by my gut and my gut has served me well. Yes, that’s not very professional, journalism-wise, but right now I’m being paid to op-ed and to figure out how to save people in Korea from public health disasters, so I’m not the journalist I used to be. And that feels good.

  41. Kushibo, you could be far more effective if you stop criticizing.

    “…see how much of what I wrote turned out to be right, from their non-accidental accident to them praising their guards to concessions by the US government.”

    How you can credit yourself for any outcome is funny. Take care.

  42. pkim wrote:

    How you can credit yourself for any outcome is funny.

    I don’t credit myself with the outcome. I credit myself for recognizing that outcome months before a lot of other people, and in the face of many people telling me I was wrong.

    Thanks for playing.

  43. John wrote:

    Yes, I agree that Lisa Ling’s documentary has brought a side of North Korea to the attention of many who only knew it for it’s nuclear ambitions. How can one forget the chilling reactions of the North Korean patients after they had their sight returned by Dr. Ruit?

    Yes. It was super creepy! I will never forget that image.

  45. It took me four weeks (life gets in the way of my blogging, believe it or not), I have written my response. It’s quite long, so you’ll be forgiven for thinking I’ve been typing incessantly over the past four weeks, except for breaks to sleep, go to the bathroom, and drink coffee.