North Korean “Court” Sentences Aijalon Gomes to 8 Years at Hard Labor
North Korea’s sham legal system has sentenced U.S. citizen Aijalon Gomes to 8 years at hard labor and a ransom fine of $70,000 for walking across the border into North Korea.
An American has been sentenced to eight years of hard labor and fined the equivalent of $700,000 for illegal entry into North Korea. Aijalon Mahli Gomes, 30, who had taught English in South Korea, is the fourth U.S. citizen in the past year to walk into North Korea from China and get arrested. [Washington Post, Blaine Harden]
More recent reports suggest that Gomes knew and may have been inspired by the dubious example of Robert Park, who walked across the border openly and presented a petition for Kim Jong Il to the border guards. Needless to say, no sentence of this kind would have been passed by any fair and independent legal system anywhere on earth. Were Gomes a North Korean, this would be a death sentence.
“His guilt was confirmed according to the relevant articles of the criminal code of the DPRK (North Korea) at the trial,” KCNA said.
“The accused admitted all the facts which had been put under accusation. The presence of representatives of the Swedish embassy here to witness the trial was allowed as an exception at the request of the Swedish side protecting the U.S. interests,” KCNA said. [Reuters]
There’s little doubt that Kim Jong Il will exact the maximum profit from Mr. Gomes’s well-meaning and ill-considered gesture:
Gomes, also a human rights activist, seems likely to be used by North Korea as a bargaining chip, as it negotiates with the United States and four other countries over the resumption of stalled nuclear disarmament talks.
North Korea could be in a mood to talk, as there are widespread reports of starvation deaths inside the country due to a bad harvest and bungled currency reform that disrupted food markets. In addition, U.N. sanctions are believed to be squeezing the government, limiting its sales of arms and missiles. [WaPo]
Nothing good will come of this, least of all for the North Korean people.
Whatever your position on the actions of those like Robert Park and Aijalon Gomes who stroll into North Korea with demands for Kim Jong il to step down, repent, open the country to NGOs and free the political prisoners, they are the tip of the spear. There will be more. Perhaps many more.
Gomes and Park are both Americans. While the Juche regime has generated paranoia for 60 years regarding an imminent American invasion of North Korea, it is ironic that the Americans invading are not members of the USFK, but members of the Christian Church.
Taughtindoctrinated since toddlerhood that Americans are barbaric exploiters of the world’s most pure race, North Koreans will soon realize that these humble missionaries are confronting the world’s most repressive regime and its false religious cult of Juche armed only with a Bible and a willingness to die for the Korean people. It is doubtful that the KPA planned for this ‘invasion’ nor have prepared for the type of wounding it will inevitibly exact from the Juche cult. As the world’s top Juche expert Hwang Jang yop exhorts the US-RoK alliance, North Korea must be defeated by ideology, not kinetic weapons.It will take a while (although with cell phones and underground media, not as long as it would have even 5 years ago), but the word will eventually hit the streets of Pyongyang and from there, every hamlet and villiage of the Hermit Kingdom that American Christians are invading North Korea armed with Bibles and messages of love and forgiveness. This will foment an earthquake when the people realize that it is the Juche ideology and not their homes that are under attack, and those who already despise Jucheism will be listening to what Christianity offers a people accustomed to slavery and exploitation and poverty.
KCJ
From what I’ve read this sounds like another deluded idiot following Robert Park’s lead. What on earth do these people expect to achieve out of just marching into a country expecting a dictator to do as they say? Of course, not only does this endanger lives and create unnecessary diplomatic pressure on the US (which former President will go this time? They will be running out soon at this rate…), it also reeks of Orientalism and cultural imperialism. To the likes of Park and Gomes, 23 million North Koreans are incapable of changing the system there but 1 American apparently is. The North Koreans are incapable of representing themselves so 1 American volunteers to do it for them (inevitably without success).
Second of all, why do human rights have to be accompanied by proselytisation? Why, in ridding North Korea of the current system, must it automatically be replaced with Christianity? Who the hell are Park and Gomes to tell the people there what to believe?
@ KCJ: You say they are humble missionaries but from what I can see they are anything but. I suspect they have messiah complexes and their efforts will have very little impact in stimulating any North Korean uprising.
According to this, the “fine” was actually $700,000, which is more in line with the sort of extortionate ransom demand I’d have expected from Kim Jong Il.
Do you suppose Kim Jong Il really thinks the Gomes family can raise that kind of change?
It’s interesting how Aijalon’s punishment is different from Robert Park’s, though their “crime” was apparently the same. Could it be that the regime wasn’t able to force a confession from Aijalon even with all the various means at its disposal?
Realistically, perhaps the best thing that could come out of this (from an anti-regime perspective) is that Aijalon dies and becomes a martyr. I imagine this is what he and Robert both wanted. Ultimately, the regime probably won’t allow it, but we’ll see.
Quelle suprise, I see now that my prediction has unfortunately come true, see last post of this thread.
http://www.freekorea.us/2010/03/25/aijon-gomes-doesnt-sound-much-like-a-defector-after-all/#comments
Envelope again please.
KCJ, so here you are yet again talking with glowing praise for what Park and Gomes did. So can you please finally get around to answering these questions?
Was Robert Park’s recantation part of the plan? If Gomes recants to get released, will his recantation be part of the plan? With the “how NK converts critical foreigners†thing you have posted several times, you seem to be indicating that you know North Korea would at least try to convert him or break him, so are the recantations part of the plan?
What do you think the end result will be of Mr Gomes and the four South Korean naïfs traipsing into North Korea? Will they hold out longer than Robert Park? What will they eventually give up?
Do you think the DPRK and KCNA machines eating up and spitting out these people is “inspiring†to the average North Korean? Is it supposed to provide hope? Were you not expecting this as a possible outcome for Mr Park, the current 무명4, or Mr Gomes and future traipsers?
Do you think Mr Gomes and these naïfs with a Moses complex (and Park possibly with a Messiah complex) are working in a vacuum? In other words do you think their jaunts across the river affect nobody else in any way, shape, or form? In its effort to mitigate the effects of their entry into North Korea, do you not think the authorities are trying hard to plug up their porous border, thus blocking a path of escape for would-be refugees?
And here’s a new one: What is the DPRK planning to do with the $700K they hope to get from Gomes’s family or his supporters or his government?
Not so fast with that award statue, Ernst. We don’t know that he has actually been sent to a labor camp. Laura Ling and Euna Lee were also sentenced to a labor camp — twelve years, in fact — but they stayed at the Pyongyang Palazzo the whole time.
Thanks for the thorough post, Joshua. In my own take, I wrote that I think Robert Park should be on suicide watch, as he is already in a fragile emotional and/or mental state and may feel directly responsible for this horrible thing happening to his friend.
Jon said:
Read most post again, Jon. The word uprising is not in it. I said that that the word on the street will find resonance with those who already despise the Juche cult. I said they will listen to what Christianity has to offer. I said that the message carried by the missionaries and directed frontally at the regime would wound the Juche cult.
Do I want an uprising? Of course. But I did not suggest that the bold confrontations of KJI and the Juche regime by the missionaries would foment such an uprising. It clearly wounds the Juche narrative about American imperialism and hails another God for North Korea.
Given the fact that all the Americans within this past year infiltrating North Korea are all minorites, Chinese, Korean and African American, all hoping to show the world the regime’s brutality, I guess it kind of throws down the DPRK official propaganda that non whites in America admire Jucheism. If anything it shows that these same non-white minorities are not so persecuted after all and live a comfortable life in the states with freedom of travel and liberty. A big blow to the regime’s teachings.
Not necessarily, Ditto81. Anybody can be a running dog.
Good point Ditto81, especially with the racist narrative promulgated by the KWP.
kushibo, I already had that in mind when it comes to being a pawn of so called non existent American imperialsim. KCJ, even though i’m a liberal christian and you a conservative bible basher, it is good to see that we agree on something my friend. The racist anti-westernism is at a paraodox in these cases. I will not guarantee that this year will be the 2012 of the DPRK but I will say that this year will be the new found Mayan obsession with the 2012 DPRK regime…
Well, superstions aside and logic intruding, Kim Jueng Eun is the last of a six decade rule of the upper Korean peninsula. The pot has boiled over. Now that it has we need to concentrate on the forces keeping in vain the kettle being burned.
I’m actually Roman Catholic, but yes, conservative.
The DPRK will collapse soon, maybe even sooner than ‘experts’ forecast. Juche is the center of gravity in NK and it is melting down in plain sight. That is the glue that holds the whole gigantic prison camp together. Once the mythology fails, there will be open rebellion against the Juche priests and the bankrupt religion of Jucheism.
The Christian NGOs in South Korea are akin to a giant sling shot that is pulled back, tense, and waiting to be sprung. They are aimed at the underground Church in NK which Open Doors estimates at 500,000. Once those two entities link up, the glide path to reunification is an inevitability.
Even Dr. Andrei Lankov believes Christianity will replace Jucheism in NK.
KCJ, how much money do you think the DPRK regime will get for Mr Gomes? What do you suppose it will be used for? Will you ever answer those questions up above?
Money? Probably none. You can’t put a price on death blows to the world’s most odious idol.
That’s the problem with the way you look at this: its all about pragmatic immediate results, all about $ and the bottom line. These men are animated by a much higher cause that has the potential to yield much greater and more lasting affect. Juche is as Hwang Jang yop says, and ideology that must be defeated with a superior ideology.
Same goes for Al Qaeda. AQ cannot be stopped by trying to kill all the insurgents on earth. It must be defeated in the hearts and minds of men.
I thought Christians are supposed to have Messiah complexes?
KCJ wrote:
Nice attempt at dismissal of my (and many others’) legitimate concerns. No, it’s not about “immediate results” and the bottom line.
The mentally unstable Robert Park and Aijalon Mahli Gomes traipsing into North Korea are not “death blows” to the regime. In fact, they may be bolstering it — with money and propaganda coups — just as it’s beginning to flounder.
That’s the real reason you’re unwilling, even afraid, to answer those questions, because you know the answers will lay bare the utter vacuousness of any claim that these naïf voyageurs on their walkabout are valuable to the cause.
Send off the balloons. That’s a great idea. Send off DVDs. But stop sending people into harm’s way that become costly liabilities and propaganda victories for the North. You and your ilk should be renouncing and repudiating this type of action. I thought that before Mr Gomes went, before I’d ever heard of Aijalon Mahli Gomes, because I feared exactly what happened: Robert Park’s foolish and detrimental behavior would be a model for others with a Moses or Messiah complex.
Robert Park needs protection from himself. Mr Gomes now needs the aid of the US government, and would-be Parks and Gomeses need to be guided away from this kind of thing.
What will it take to wake you up? Gomes’s death in North Korea? Park’s suicide in Arizona? News of how the money bled from Mr Gomes’s family or supporters is used to bolster the regime? Your position is utterly abhorrent.
What makes you think he wants the aid of the US government? If he is really doing this because he felt called by God to do it, then he understands he’ll have to suffer whatever persecution is placed upon him. That’s his cross to bear of his own volition.
Contrary to your belief, perhaps he is not afraid to suffer, and perhaps die, at the hands of those that would persecute him as he knows this world is temporal and eternity awaits him.
I understand you might not believe in or follow the Christian ethos, but that doesn’t mean Mr. Gomes or Mr. Park are “mentally unstableâ€. It may in fact mean they truly do believe in a higher power and the message He taught. Who are you to judge their beliefs? Especially when all they are putting in danger are themselves?
Perhaps Mr. Gomes was keeping verses such as these in his mind when planning and then taking his voyage.
“God blesses you when people mock you and persecute you and lie about you and say all sorts of evil things against you because you are my followers. Be happy about it! Be very glad! For a great reward awaits you in heaven. And remember, the ancient prophets were persecuted in the same way.†– Matthew 5:11-12 (NLT)
“Stand up to him. Stand firm in what you believe. All over the world you know that your brothers and sisters are going through the same kind of suffering.†– 1 Peter 5:9 (NIRV)
“For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory†– 1 Corinthians 4:17 (KJV)
“For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.†– Romans 8:18 (KJV)
“The King will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.’ – Matthew 25:40 (NIV)
Perhaps Mr. Gomes feels that giving his life to draw attention to the suffering of others is a sacrifice worth making.
By your standards he might be mentally unstable, but in the eyes of his God and in the eyes of the followers of Christ, he is as sane and as blessed as one can be. Have you ever thought about that?
I am always suprised why the christian muppet brigade comes out in full force whenever ‘one of them’ gets caught red handed for being stupid in a foreign land.
And it gets even more hilarious, because just like the Robert Park thread, the nintendo-christians quote half a dozen of verses and that is supposed to convince us that there is actually nothing wrong with Park and Gomez ; their actions may have been stupid, but hey, they had a higher calling and did it out of love for the North Korean people….yeah right !
That’s the same kind of drivel muslims use flying planes into buildings and blowing people up in the subway. After all, they also had a higher calling….
You couldn’t make it up.
God Bless Gomes (an OFK newbie?) wrote:
Whether he wants it or not, it will likely be coming. And he should have known that such a thing would be a likelihood. Since KCJ is ducking those questions above, how about you have a go at them.
I am a Christian, your fellow traveler KCJ’s contentions notwithstanding. I am an imperfect Christian, and I certainly do not profess to know all that God knows, and I’m cautious not to violate Matthew 4:7 or Luke 4:12.
God gave me a brain to use as I try to follow the values with which He filled my heart, and that brain tells me it is foolish to risk one’s life to give a propaganda victory to an evil tyrant and fill his coffers. If Mr Gomes or Mr Park are willing to risk their lives, do it in a way that truly helps — like ferrying refugees out of China — instead of becoming ideological hamburger put through the DPRK Minitrue grinder. Answer those questions above.
Mr Park’s mental instability has been demonstrated by actions other than his march into North Korea. He continues to be a danger to himself and perhaps to others. What will it take for people like you to realize that this is just modeling a way for people with real-world problems masked by religious fervor? Robert Park’s suicide? The suicide of one of his followers? Because when you condone and encourage this with Bible verses, you’re willfully ignoring the problems that are right in front of your face.
And I’m reminded from your litany of Bible verses not to test the Lord Our God, as you may be killed by snakes. Your Mr Gomes may indeed have a death wish or a Messiah complex, or both. Neither is a sign of mental health.
Goodness, am I the only one here who is appalled by this?
Your comparison is wide of the mark. Christians believe they are called by God to save souls of the damned by preaching the Gospel. Violent Islamists believe they are called by God to send infidels to Hell by slaughtering them. It is not only the nonviolent versus violent means but the purpose that distinguishes the earliest and modern Christians from Islamic militants.
Senator John Kerry is demanding North Korea release Mr Gomes, who hails from his state.
Ernst’s comparison of the missionaries willing to sacrifice life and limb to bring attention to the sufering of the NK people with AQ terrorists says much more about him than the followers of Jesus.
Absolutely. Ernst’s comparison was totally invalid, and I think Sonagi did a good job of setting that straight.
Now, KCJ, please answer those questions up above.
I have answered them in sundry places and in various ways, kushi. You cannot prove that the incursions into NK by Christian outsiders have been a propaganda coup for the DPRK. We will not know what the effect was until a year from now or longer when the next wave of defectors are debriefed.
There was a huge propaganda coup when President Clinton went to Pyongyang, hat-in-hand to ask for forgiveness from his porcine majesty. But Ling and Lee were NOT missionaries, we not sending KJI a message, did not plan on being caught, and were certainly not willing to die.
You have dodged them in a few places. Not the same as answering them. (And some of them are new questions anyway.)
Where have you answered whether Robert Park’s recantation was part of his plan?
Where have you answered if you think the DPRK and KCNA machines eating up and spitting out these people is “inspiring†to the average North Korean?
Where have you answered whether you think the authorities are trying hard to plug up their porous border where Mr Park and Mr Gomes have crossed, thus blocking a path of escape for would-be refugees?
KCJ wrote:
I’m sure the same people who are already saying Robert Park deserves credit for bringing down the as-yet not-brought-down Pyongyang regime are already to coach the next wave of defectors while they’re still in China, eh?
Too bad the ones who couldn’t escape because of heightened security brought on in certain places by Park’s and Gomes’s visits can’t be debriefed, eh?
I already answered both of your Qs in detail on the OFK blog, Kushibo. What are you, the blog interrogator?
KCJ wrote:
Got link? (And there were more than two.)
No, but I’m running for blog b.s. detector. You talking with such frequency about how Robert Park’s self-sacrifice by walking into North Korea will be an inspiration to the people of North Korea strikes me as such when instead the North Korean people hear of his breaking and read of his recanting, and we in the free world know of his “intense temptations to kill [him]self.”
You and people like you who praise and encourage such foolhardy behavior are a danger, including to Mr Park, so when you talk up this kind of thing, I’m going to call you on it.
Gentlemen, Park’s / Gomez’ zealotry IS actually no different than a muslim’s mindset when blowing up a plane, as both think they’re doing the right thing in the name of religion.
But, I’ll gladly admit that whilst Park & Gomez did something THEY thought was constructive (it wasn’t), the muslim muppets indiscriminately end up doing destructive things on purpose.
As I am not aware of Christians committing terrorist acts on a grand scale I would probably moderate the post. Nevertheless, it is not to say there are no christian loonies out there, but their actions often seem confined to a smaller scale ie beating their wives, molesting their children, shooting doctors at abortion clinics, trying to convert the inconvertible (remember the south korean clowns in afghanistan last year) etc etc.
KCJ said:
I assumed “forment an earthquake” equated pretty well with uprising/mass public demonstration.
Secondly, how on earth is his message going to get to all the North Korean people? It’s not as if either Park or Gomes have been in the country for a considerable amount of time spreading their message before they were caught. They are unlikely to have told more than a handful of people about wonderful Christianity before being apprehended at which point the only people they will preach to will be prison guards and officials whose stake in the regime is probably too high to immediately desire its fall.
Also, how does it wound the Juche “cult”? I’m sure the people of North Korea are told from birth that America is constantly trying to spy on them. Having been to the country myself as part of a tour group and seen how suspicious the tour guides were of just an innocent photo, surely it will come as no surprise if these actions by Park and Gomes actually vindicates North Korean propaganda! “Two American infiltrators with propaganda arrested” is what the people of North Korea are likely to have heard (if anything).
Finally, do you not see the latent Orientalism in this endeavour? Do you not think the North Koreans are capable of representing or empowering themselves? Why should 1 (or 2) American(s) apparently have the sole authority and ability to overthrow Kim Jong Il? Do you consider 23 million North Koreans to be weak and incapable of such a task? There is also the cultural imperialist aspect. Why should North Korea have a choice between either Juche or Christianity? From what you have said it doesn’t seem enough for you that Juche should be overthrown. In your eyes it has to be replaced by Christianity. Disgusting.
This comment is mostly directed toward Christians…
I find it interesting that when Robert Park first entered North Korea many accused him of seeking media attention. Gomes, on the other hand, entered silently without any preplanned media coverage. Had North Korea itself not released his name, we probably wouldn’t even know who he was. Does this ring any bells? The contrast between energetic, radical Robert who blatantly entered the DPRK, and the silent crossing of Aijalon?
“For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine; and ye say, He hath a devil. The Son of man is come eating and drinking; and ye say, Behold a gluttonous man, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners! But wisdom is justified of all her children.” Luke 7:33-35
Many of the people criticizing Robert and Aijalon’s actions are not willing themselves to suffer for the sake of the North Korean people. Is it necessary to suffer? Can’t they just be free without any Christians having to suffer for it? I don’t think so. If more Christians made sacrifices for the gospel to reach North Korea, we wouldn’t have to waste our time arguing about whether or not Robert and Aijalon’s entry will do more harm than good.
Perhaps Aijalon’s crossing is NOT a coincidence. Is not a spiritual battle raging for the souls in North Korea? Is there not a need for the sun and moon stand still over North Korea that the battle may be won, and the gospel preached there?
“For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.” 1 Corinthians 1:18
HW, it seems that your analysis assumes that (a) the walkabouters are doing something that results in good, (b) the walkabouters are not bolstering the regime by their acts, and (c) this is the only way that one can suffer or sacrifice themselves for the North Korean people.
Regarding (a), being ground up and spit out by the propaganda machine such that your comprehensive recantation is publicized and then you have “intense temptations to kill [your]self” is not resulting in good.
Regarding (b), it would seem that the Pyongyang regime is squeezing financial and/or political capital out of these visits. With the Accidentally On Purpose Touristsâ„¢ (formerly the Stupogantsâ„¢, but I’m trying to be nicer these days), we have former President Bill Clinton giving a propaganda coup via a coveted photo-op. With Robert Park, we may have had tacit quid pro quo that Pyongyang would not be put back on the list of state sponsors of terror. Who knows what will have to be given up in order to see Aijalon Mahli Gomes safe back in Boston?
Regarding (c), far more real good can be done by “suffering” in China helping ferry North Korean refugees out of the PRC. I’ve met some of the brave souls doing that, and words cannot describe their bravery in the face of the risks they take. That is something that can be done for those who want to engage in battle against evil forces. Suffer, they will.
kushibo, Regarding (c) I agree with you that real good is being done by the persons who operate the underground railroad in China. However, when these operations fail (and they often do) that the refugees are repatriated, and imprisoned/executed. I’m not saying that they shouldn’t be doing it – I think they should. I’m just saying that what they are doing also put’s person’s lives on the line.
We shouldn’t think that the people helping the NK refugees to escape are responsible for their deaths any more than we should think that Robert and Aijalon are responsible for harm to the North Korean people. If North Korea tortures, rapes, and kills – they are the ones responsible.
Another point I would like to make is that one of the main issues Robert Park raised in his interview before crossing into North Korea are the 200,000 political prisoners in North Korean concentration camps. Robert is correct in saying that what is happening in North Korea is worse than what happened in Nazi Germany. Nothing is currently being done to effectively help them. Robert was trying to raise this issue before the international community and the worldwide Christian church. He crossed into North Korea at the risk of his own life, and as we also can gather, at the risk of his own mental sanity.
If you went through the hell Robert Park did, you might be tempted to commit suicide as well. South Korean Pastor An was doing missionary work around Yanji in China when he was abducted by three North Korean agents on July 9th, 1995. It is reported that he committed suicide. Evan C. Hunziker, a Christian, reportedly committed suicide on December 18, 1996 after being held in North Korea for three months. North Korean government sanctioned torture is not a light matter.
When I write of Christians being willing to sacrifice for the gospel to reach North Korea, I am speaking of everyday average Christians who are willing to make sacrifices in their personal lives. Examples: praying, fasting, giving financially, raising awareness, and perhaps going themselves to S. Korea, China, or North Korea to preach the gospel to the lost and dying who have never heard the name of Jesus.
As I already stated, my comment was mainly directed toward Christians…
HW said:
So 23 million can’t change the political situation in their own country but 2 foreigners can? Are you saying North korea is some sort of global test to energise the world’s Christians?
North Korea is right. You are an imperialist. Why should they be forced to have some foreign religion?
It is highly unlikely that Gomes and Park walked into North Korea without any help from dissidents in China or North Korea itself. Most likely, Gomes and Park have now revealed the names and last known whereabouts of these people under interrogation. Their lives are now at risk thanks to Gomes and Park.
Absolute rubbish.
He hasn’t told us what he went through.
God I hate proselytisation. Why do you feel the need to force your religion on other people?
Jon,
How is he forcing anything on anybody? He is espousing a view he holds, just as you are espousing yours. Not very tolerant are you?
HW wrote:
Please note that I specifically referred “ferrying refugees out of China,” not ferrying them out of North Korea. They are already in China, where the problems you mentioned exist with a high degree of risk whether they are ferried out or not. While movement carries a risk with it, staying put carries a high degree of risk, too.
On the other hand, going on walkabout into North Korea brings an added danger to refugees who would try to escape the North, as the border scrutiny in that area (if not across the entire DPRK-PRC border) will temporarily or permanently bring stepped-up security that plugs up pores in the border. It increases the risk, while ferrying them out ends their risk (if successful) or doesn’t change the risk equation that already existed (if they fail).
That you can seriously suggest these two things hold similar levels of risk is quite twisted.
Ultimate responsibility for the torture, rape, and murder lie with the actors in North Korea, but that does not let off the hook those who, through their own deliberate actions or criminal negligence, place the victims in harm’s way, lead to the plugging-up of their escape routes, or give information to the authorities through their own gross negligence. Robert Park and now Aijalon Mahli Gomes were probably responsible for at least one of those, while Laura Ling, Euna Lee, and Mitch Koss were responsible for at least two.
That’s what he said before he crossed, and let’s take a look at what he said afterward:
Quite the about take, and months later, we still have no recantation of his recantation. Again, this is the result of these walkabouts: ideological fervor against the North is ground into Juche victory.
I think we’re beginning to see that his mental sanity was already at risk.
PRECISELY why we shouldn’t turn lambs of God into lambs to slaughter. Encouraging people who are on mentally seismic ground to begin with to traipse into that kind of environment — for nothing of value and in fact almost certainly brining detriment to the innocents — is appalling behavior. Maybe even criminal.
I have no beef about fasting or praying… the plight of North Koreans in the DPRK and in the PRC is something I pray about. Nor donating money, especially to ferry people out, or to raise awareness.
But when the actions being conducted are bringing harm — especially by plugging up escape routes and by bolstering the regime through propaganda victories and spent American capital to fish out the walkabouters — then the line has to be drawn.
Well today’s you’re lucky day, then, because I happen to be one, KCJ’s claims notwithstanding.
Ahem, I’m no gentleman.
HW wrote:
I wanted to deal with this one separately. First, do you have a link or some other evidence that he said this? Because on the surface of it, this is a load of bunk.
As terrible as this horror in our contemporary world is, it cannot come close to the many millions of Jews, Roma, Nazi opponents, etc., who were slaughtered by the Nazis.
Deaths by famine in this place where food is used as a political weapon, have numbered around two million or so, and with all other deaths, we might be looking at three or four perhaps, and it continues unabated. But in terms of overall numbers, nothing close to the Nazis. In terms of portion of the population, maybe it’s on par, but if that’s what is meant, you need (or he) to be a lot clearer about that.
Arguably, the turning a blind eye to the on-going horror may be as bad or worse as what happened to the victims of the Nazis, but if that is what was meant, then you (or he) need to be a lot clearer about that, too.
kushibo, I believe Robert said this based on the Public Statement For the Liberation of All North Koreans co-authored by Robert. Also, in Robert’s interview with Reuters, he said “But not only that, there are concentration camps in North Korea that are of the same brutality as in Nazi Germany.”
You have a valid argument that more people died under Nazi Germany than under Kim Il Sung and Kim Jong Il.
The point I was trying to make is that Robert Park compared the brutality of Nazi Germany to be (I stand corrected) equal with North Korea. Dr. Norbert Vollertsen has made a similar comparison. See Flower Garden at 5min 48sec
Thank you. When I said this is a load of bunk, I meant what was being said, not your claim that Robert said it.
As I outlined, there is some room for saying that in some aspects the regime in North Korea is worse than Nazi Germany, but in so many measures it is not. It might be best to tone down the rhetoric to defensible statements. The truth is bad enough without exaggerating it.
kushibo wrote:
Kushibo, I think Jesus mentioned sending his disciples out as “lambs among wolves.”
btw, who encouraged Robert and Aijalon to go into N. Korea? Reportedly, Robert fasted for 15 days before his entry to N. Korea. In his interview with Reuters, he said that he was doing this on his own, and that some people were trying to stop him.
Kushibo, you speak of “bringing detriment to the innocents.” Robert and Aijalon were primarily addressing the innocents who are inside North Korea. True, many North Koreans have a chance to make it to China. A far fewer number will make it to South Korea. But the number (especially innocent nk Christians) from the North Korean labor camps (many of which are life-sentences) who escape to freedom are extremely rare.
I really do think Robert Park was willing to die when he crossed the Tumen river on December 25, 2009. What happened between the time of the crossing and his release from the DPRK still remains a mystery. Why did he recant? Did he recant? Why is he now silent? Those questions still have to be answered. Dr. Nobert Vollertsen said concerning Robert Park’s actions (in an e-mail – I can’t document it), “Silence is killing in North Korea.”
I personally believe Laura, Euna, Robert, and Aijalon’s entries into North Korea have done something to diminish the silence that is killing in North Korea. More people are aware, more people are praying, and more people are thinking, now, than 2 years ago.
kushibo wrote:
Kushibo, I think Jesus mentioned sending his disciples out as “lambs among wolves.”
btw, who encouraged Robert and Aijalon to go into N. Korea? Reportedly, Robert fasted for 15 days before his entry to N. Korea. In his interview with Reuters, he said that he was doing this on his own, and that some people were trying to stop him.
“bringing detriment to the innocents.” Robert and Aijalon were primarily addressing the innocents who are inside North Korea. True, many North Koreans have a chance to make it to China. A far fewer number will make it to South Korea. But the number (especially innocent nk Christians) from the North Korean labor camps (many of which are life-sentences) who escape to freedom are extremely rare.
I really do think Robert Park was willing to die when he crossed the Tumen river on December 25, 2009. What happened between the time of the crossing and his release from the DPRK still remains a mystery. Why did he recant? Did he recant? Why is he now silent? Those questions still have to be answered. Dr. Nobert Vollertsen said concerning Robert Park’s actions (in an e-mail), “Silence is killing in North Korea.”
I personally believe Laura, Euna, Robert, and Aijalon’s entries into North Korea have done something to diminish the silence that is killing in North Korea. More people are aware, more people are praying, and more people are thinking, now, than 2 years ago.
So, to sum it all up, the christians here think Ling/Lee/Park/Gomez are absolute heroes. People with more brain than belief think Park & Gomez are a couple of deluded donkeys, and Ling/Lee some vain pair of C-journalists trying to enrich themselves over the misery of North Koreans.
Then some folks here, who seem very skilled in copy-pasting bible verses, suggest that the whole of NK is now aware of the fact that four delusional muppets entered the country over the last few months – without actually saying how the NK’s can possibly have heard about this opportunistic quartet of heroes. Let me guess, they found out through the internet !
In a nutshell, we can happily conclude that we needed 31 posts here to find out that the actions of four loonies will have no impact on the situation in NK at all and NK will stay as it is.
Ling & Lee are now cashing in with their stupid book, Robert Park will be on a suicide watch for another two years, and Gomes will master the art of salt mining over the next eight years.
What a result eh…
Ernst, your obvious contempt for anybody with a belief other than your own blinds you to what was being said. The point being made wasn’t about the norK’s hearing the message, it was about making others in the world take notice of what is going on in norK. Sure, those of us that frequent this (and similar) site have a pretty good understanding of the situation in the north, but most of the rest of the world could care less.
Another point being made (at least about Gomes and Park) are that some in this world find that putting the value of their lives above the value of others is a worthy cause if, in even the smallest of ways, it can bring respite to those that are suffering. While you may find them foolish (and that’s your right), if even a handful of Christians (or non-Christians for that matter) are now driven to do more to help out, either by supporting NGO’s or organizations in that help the north or even getting directly involved themselves, then I would suggest it was worth THEIR sacrifices. It hasn’t hurt you one bit so why do you want to get so twisted up about it? If they let you be; you let them be. It’s that simple.
The problem is that there is no independent, verifiable data to support the perceptions of HM, Theresa, and others that Park’s and Gomes’ acts have actually raised awareness. Any reasoned person can note this regardless of that person’s attitude towards Christianity or religion in general.
When US citizens cross into North Korea, there is always a risk of their being used as bargaining chips. That is why some of us are publicly critical of this particular method of trying to “raise awareness.”
Ernst wrote:
[kushibo raises his hand] Not all of them.
I haven’t seen that stated, but I have seen a case made by the Christians here (ok, minus Kushibo) that we’re not going to judge their motives.
As for Lee and Ling, I think they were just looking for fame.
I think you’ve confused “judge” with “condemn.” KCJ, HW, and God Bless Gomes, you, and other Christian commenters on related threads have all praised Park and Gomes for raising awareness about North Korea and spreading the Gospel to North Koreans. That IS judging Park and Gomes.