Laura Ling’s letter to her family, dated May 15

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1. “I’m hesitant to mention the name Bruce Cumings within the presence of this readership”
   Why?

   “…stumbled across the North Korean border inadvertently” How does one stumble across the border to a country that is well known to be a fairly brutal dictatorship? I feel terrible for them to be held captive month after month, and I hope they get released asap (seems like a long delay until trial, given the high profile of the case). But there is no doubt that there was a justifiable reason for North Korea to take them into custody.

   Having lived for a while quite close to the Russian (then USSR) border with Finland I have some insight. This border was not heavily guarded because it was remote. There was no fence so people knew to be careful. My grandmother and I came across it once when picking berries together. We had already knews the border was there, and there were several warning signs. There was 0 risk of crossing by mistake. If anybody crossed this border non-legit in those days, they had an agenda.. No doubt the North Korean border, which is much shorter, is even better marked.

   Laura Ling’s agenda was probably nothing more than a story, but what a silly risk to take! I wonder if either of them can speak Korean so that they are at least aware what’s going on around them.

2. Cumings is a hack, a North Korean apologist who has been discredited repeatedly. His assumption that Ling and Lee “stumbled” across the border, like most of his research, simply ignores any facts that don’t support his desired result. In fact, the information we have about where Ling and Lee were seized is inconsistent and unclear, but most of it suggests that they were actually in China.

   Friends don’t let friends read Bruce Cumings.

3. I don’t understand how two professional journalists can inadvertently “stumble” over/under/across a river.

   Also, there’s no evidence or any signals that NK will do a Saberi catch-and-release.

4. I know Cumings’ reputation — I have not been able to finish his book because it made my blood pressure rise, but I can actually see his predicted scenario playing out (finding the journalists guilty and then releasing them). That seems like a very “face-saving” thing to do. I know he has credibility issues, but I still think his prediction is quite realistic.

   As for the location of Ling and Lee when they were captured, I really don’t know where they were because what I’m hearing is inconsistent. However, if they were in China when they were taken, I would want to see/hear China show disapproval for North Korean soldiers trespassing and kidnapping these two reporters while on Chinese soil. I’m not sure how likely that is, however. (I’d also like to see the U.S. State Department show a little more passion in calls for their release as well, and again, if the two were in China, it would be nice to hear the State Dept. making a stink about that fact as well.)

   Anyway, for what it’s worth, I believe that as professional journalists, Ling and Lee knew very well the risks they were taking by simply being in the area – I doubt they and Current TV were that naive to believe they would be immune to danger, especially at such a sensitive location. Having said that, what happened is very unfortunate and like Joshua, I’m glad the families are going public with their cause.

5. Jodi,

   Which book?

   Occasionally, about once a year or so, somewhere on the most popular K-blogs, a discussion about the merits of Cumings will arise – debating his value as a “scholar” and the over-all assessment of his value.

   I think reading North Korea: Another Nation — should put away any doubts.

6. Jodi and Joshua, what an interesting question?
   >

   The 38 parallel being hard to cross, the North Korean’s know well that the north border with China is most porous although still difficult to cross…
   Do the Chinese know that there is a violation of their border line by the North Korean guards? Of course, is there a diplomatic issue? No as log as a Chinese citizen is not involved in the abuse.
   In the 80’s when I was still in Korea, a guard who catches anyone trying to escape to China can join the Korean Labor Party (조선로동당),
   Now I speculate, If we think of a situation where a group of guards in patrol using their military binocular, I have no doubt that they could easily notice that Euna and Laura are foreigners (in this case Americas). Thinking the communism party reward, these guards would not hesitate to cross the border to China and kidnap the two journalists for the sake of joining the Korean Labor Party and bye bye the border patrol.
   Aliou
   niane@dixinn.org

7. @Aliou:

   The Chinese-North Korean border draws many curious onlookers including plenty of Americans like myself. I have never heard of a case where ordinary foreigners were snatched from the Chinese side. If the two women were forcibly taken across the border, then the decision was made by higher ups, not by the guards themselves trying to get a reward.

8. I tend to think that the North Koreans once they have gotten done completing their testing and ratcheting up tensions to the point they feel they are in good bargaining position will probably release them as a sign of good will to restart talks with the US.

9. Jodi wrote:

   Occasionally, about once a year or so, somewhere on the most popular K-blogs, a discussion about the merits of Cumings will arise – debating his value as a “scholar” and the over-all assessment of his value.

   I don’t like calling people di¢ks, but Cumings is a di¢k.

10. 1.) Kushibo, Um, I didn’t write that.

    2.) usinkorea, I tried reading Korea’s Place in the Sun several years ago. Couldn’t finish it.

    For what it’s worth, a friend of mine quoted a well-known expert who I’d hate to name as I heard this second-hand. Again, not that I am a Cumings fan, but just to throw out another opinion:

    Yes, I’ve read a bit about Cumings and once talked about him with Prof. _____. He (Prof. ____) said that Cumings is quite close to a Korean nationalist interpretation of modern history, but his works are quite important in one aspect: He (Cumings) tries to give a fair treatment of North Korea and actually to understand that society. Other Koreanists tend to demonize the North.

    Just something to think about.

    Anyway, going to check out the Today Show as Lisa Ling and Family are up next.

11. He (Cumings) tries to give a fair treatment of North Korea and actually to understand that society. Other Koreanists tend to demonize the North.

    There are rare times when trying to give what we might call a broad minded opinion is damnable — and this is one of them.

    If some Koreanist can convince me why North Korea shouldn’t be demonized, I’ll die of shock.

    Finding the bright side of, and “making sense” of, North Korea by “understanding it” is like —– trying to convince people Hitler and Nazism really wasn’t all that bad – compared to what misguided critics said who “over demonized” it and things like The Holocaust…

    Seriously…

    I’d want that professor — and any like-minded people who might feel proud of themselves for being so open minded about Cumings – proud for their cutting across the dominant interpretation of him and proving their own open mindedness —–

    — to read North Korea: Another Country — and imagine the author is writing about Nazi Germany and Hitler’s rule.

    How would they feel to see someone in such a crass, slight-of-hand manner – trying to convince people that not only have American and Western critics “demonized” Hitler unfairly and failed to balance their criticism by trying to understand the good side of the Third Reich —— but who also based their whole career-long project in stemming the negative tied of interpretation against Germany under Hitler’s rule ——- to a foundation of disillusionment with the United States – not the merits of Hitler’s Germany.

    I had a couple of classes with a Korean Studies expert – who I’ll also not put on the spot by naming — who confirmed what I had concluded about Cumings’ career without my having prompted this other scholar by stating my opinion.

    I forget exactly what brought the topic up or what was said beforehand, but the professor went into a little talk about how Cumings needed to get back to being a scholar — that he liked Cumings as a person – that they had been friends in college together — and that you should understand the time period back then —– about how American society was in upheaval because every day we were learning about more and more lies our own government was telling concerning the war in Vietnam. And people like he and Cumings were thinking, “If the government is lying to us about this, what else have they been lying about?”

    Even before I heard that, I thought Cumings had made a career out of trying to make the Korean War the first Vietnam – and based his “recuperating” of North Korea’s image not out of some desire to be just to what is “good” about the North – but by an overpowering desire to explain what is “bad” about the United States that had apparently crushed him with disallusionment.

    And imagine that —- if you were reading a scholar in the 1950s or 60s who made a career out of trying to convince the world the Third Reich really wasn’t all bad – and that whatever it was was primarily the fault of — Woodrow Wilson and the Western democracies —- and had felt compelled to follow this career path of de-demonizing Nazi Germany — because of great disgust he felt over revelations about the Spanish-American War, the presidency of Teddy Roosevelt, and the taking over of the colonization of the Philippines…

    The Origins of the Korean War is worth reading for people who want a different take on the nature of that war. Beyond that, I can’t stand Cumings — his career.

12. I remember many years ago Michael Palin (he of the parrot sketch) made a film called Full Circle, where he visited the US-Mexico border and the fence. He was saying how easy it was for people to cross, and so of course he crossed under the fence and ended up in the US. They showed him doing it in the film. Seemed like an obvious thing to do. I wonder if he cleared it with the US authorities first.

    http://www.palinstravels.co.uk/book-487

13. I’m a big fan of Michael Palin, but I doubt he’d have been foolish enough to do that in North Korea, nor do I think the evidence suggests that Ling or Lee did, either. The evidence so far suggests that they were either grabbed from the Chinese side or were led across the border without them realizing it.

14. Is the border exactly the Tumen and Yalu rivers or are there parts of it where it crosses over land? It’s hard to imagine someone could be led across a large river without realizing they were crossing the border. If they were grabbed from the Chinese side did the North Koreans ambush them or did they wade or come sailing across from the Korean side, start talking to them and then take them away?

    Do we know roughly what part of the border they were taken on? Is it the area around Tumen City in Jilin Province? What does Mitch Koss say? Presumably he knows where they were when they were taken and more or less what happened. Presumably everyone knows except me. I haven’t heard much in the media about what Mitch Koss says. Does anyone have a link?

15. Bingo. My understanding is that when a sand bar piles up on one side of the river, the border stays where it is and the border is actually a land border. And no, Mitch Koss hasn’t talked.

16. Thanks. So do we know that they were taken from the river bed? I’ve heard that reported. Presumably they wouldn’t agree to go with the North Korean guards if approached. I’d like to think they’d back away if they saw North Korean guards approaching, but perhaps not. Do we know what time of day they were taken? Do we know whether people were watching or even filming from the Chinese bank?

    I’ve tried searching for this information but I can’t find it. I’m guessing that the Chinese authorities have interviewed everyone they can get their hands on, including Mr Koss and looked at any film he may have had with him. I’m guessing that Mr Koss has also been interviewed by people from the US State Department. So they probably know more than I do; and keeping a good lid on it too, I might add.

    As far as I know there isn’t any dispute between the two countries over their border (which is what all the Mt Paektu carry on in the ROK is about). If they were wandering around in the riverbed on the ice or sandbars I wonder what they were doing there.

    Hopefully they let them go without any favors needing to be pulled in. Hopefully the next US citizen to make a film about the refugees or human trafficking is a lot more careful. It’s probably not a hot idea to chat up the guards for example.

17. None of the answers to the questions you ask are published to my knowledge, and Jodi’s and my sources are telling us different things. Mine say they were in China. Hers say they were in North Korea. There’s no definitive answer yet, though I find it less plausible that Ling and Lee deliberately crossed the border than the idea that the North Koreans did. They did it to Kim Dong Shik, after all, and they’ve been willing to cross the Sea of Japan to abduct Japanese.